Making yogurt out of Lactobacillus reuteri is really a simple, straightforward process that I have been talking about for the past year. But some people get tripped up on the details, lamenting the thin, sour, or discolored end-result they obtain.
So here is the simple recipe, step-by-step to minimize your potential for making mistakes. Truly: I have made something like 60-70 batches with not a single failure. You can do this, too.
Why do this? Well, if you are new to this conversation, you will be excited to know that the yogurt is really not about yogurt, as conventional yogurts achieve none of these effects. This “yogurt” fermented with two unconventional strains of Lactobacillus reuteri achieve effects that include:
-
- Smoothing of skin wrinkles due to an explosion of dermal collagen
- Accelerated healing, cutting healing time in almost half
- Reduced appetite, the so-called “anorexigenic” effect—food still tastes good, but you are almost completely indifferent to temptation
- Increased testosterone in men
- Increased libido
- Preservation of bone density—Obtaining L. reuteri is one of the most important steps you can take to prevent osteoporosis
- Deeper sleep—though this benefit is enjoyed by less than 20% of people
- Increased empathy and desire for connectedness with other people
- Probiotic effects that may include prevention of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, SIBO
The majority of benefits are a result of L. reuteri‘s ability to provoke hypothalamic release of oxytocin, a hormone that is proving to be the key to substantial age-reversal and health effects.
You will need:
–Glass or ceramic bowl or other vessel large enough to hold at least one quart of liquid
–2 tablespoons of prebiotic fiber such as inulin or raw potato starch
–Starter: Either 10 tablets BioGaia Gastrus or 2 tablespoons previous batch of L. reuteri yogurt (whey or curds or mixture of both)
–1 quart of half-and-half or other liquid (to make with coconut milk, several additional steps and ingredients are required)
–Some method of maintaining at 100 degrees F
Yields: Around 8 one-half-cup servings
Make sure your bowl or other vessel is clean after washing with hot soap and water:
Add 2 level tablespoons of prebiotic fiber:
Add 10 crushed tablets of Gastrus (that provide 200 million CFUs of L. reuteri, a relatively small number). Crush the tablets with a mortar and pestle or by putting into a plastic bag and crushing with a rolling pin or heavy bottle/glass until reduced to a coarse powder. (The tablets are flavored with mint and mandarin, but the taste does not show in the final product, nor in subsequent batches.) Once you have made your first batch, make subsequent batches with two tablespoons of the prior batch, rather than crushed tablets; it can be any mixture of whey or solid curds, as both contain L. reuteri.
Mix either crushed tablets or 2 tablespoons prior yogurt with prebiotic fiber:
Add a little, e.g., 2 tablespoons, of your choice of dairy; I used organic half-and-half, as this yields the best texture (and, of course, we NEVER limit fat in the Wheat Belly lifestyle). Make a slurry by stirring; this prevents clumping of the prebiotic fiber. (Whole milk—NEVER low- or non-fat—yields a thinner end result, while cream yields something close to butter, too thick for my taste.)
Stir in remainder of half-and-half or other liquid:
Cover lightly with plastic wrap or other means. Ferment by maintaining at 100 degrees F for 36 hours. Prolonged fermentation—far longer than the 6 or so hours of commercial yogurts that explain why the bacterial counts are so low–in the presence of prebiotic fibers yields far higher bacterial counts in the tens to hundreds of billions per serving.
I used a basin-type sous vide device, but you can use a stick sous vide, yogurt maker with adjustable temperature control, or Instant Pot. (Just be careful with the Instant Pot or yogurt makers without adjustable temperature, as they are set to be compatible with conventional yogurt microorganisms and are often too hot and kill L. reuteri; if your device heats to 110 degrees F or higher, it will likely kill L. reuteri and you should find an alternative means of heating. If in doubt, turn on your device and measure the temperature reached with a thermometer first before you ruin a batch.) Keep your materials out of the way of fans, heating/cooling vents, or other sources of air contamination.
The end-result for me is rich, thick, and delicious, better tasting—and with far higher probiotic bacterial counts—than anything you can buy in a store. Once refrigerated, the “yogurt” is so thick that it can stand upright on a plate:
Serve with fresh or frozen berries, grainless granola, squirt of liquid stevia, or your choice of fruit or natural sweetener.
Thanks for the step by step. My wife is finishing up with cancer treatment(chemo & radiation). Is she a candidate for consuming L reuteri?
Howard C wrote: «My wife is finishing up with cancer treatment…»
What form of cancer? And if FDG PET scan was used in the diagnosis, what diet and lifestyle are you following?
re: «Is she a candidate for consuming L reuteri?»
I doubt that a firm answer is even possible on that at present, because no one is running trials on it (and trial design would be challenging). I recall seeing any relaxation of the caution:
“▶ Women with a history of estrogen receptor-positive breast cancer”
in this prior blog post: Who should NOT do the L. reuteri yogurt? (for which some of the cautions have been amended).
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Can you tell from your final product if your temp is too high?
Chuck wrote: «Can you tell from your final product if your temp is too high?»
Only on a gross basis. If the ingredients look unchanged from the initial state, chances are the L.reuts perished.
It’s always worth performing a trial run with plain water and a probe thermometer, to see what your setup holds over time. This is true not just for ad-hoc setups like mine, but also for possibly-not-so-smart-pots that have a rigid “yogurt” cycle that runs too hot.
At some point, we might know if litmus paper could be used to check pH, providing a clearer view of fermentation progress.
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How much do you eat daily?
Stacy wrote: «How much do you eat daily?»
Prior blog posts have suggested a portion size of ¼ to ½ cup per day.
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hello,
you probably touched on this topic with the l.reuteri..bit onhad a few concerns
if I buy this will it doe during transport. it’s hot around here.
it has synthetic ascorbic acid in it from what I read from the manufacturer .
do these things matter?
Jessica wrote: «…if I buy this will it doe during transport.»
When the outside air temperature is forecast to be above 77°F (25°C) during transit, I would not mail-order Biogaia® Gastrus® from any reseller who doesn’t offer cold-pack shipment. See if you can find a local or regional retailer who carries it.
re: «…it has synthetic ascorbic acid in it from what I read from the manufacturer.»
The other ingredients in the product (isomalt, palm oil, ascorbic acid and the flavorants) appear to have no adverse consequences for the final fermented product we make. Once you transition from tablet-started batches to saved-yogurt-started batches, those ingredients become truly irrelevant.
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ok thank you so much for the clarification. I may have a local outlet for it. thanks again.
Does anyone know why cost of tablets skyrocketed on amazon this month. ?You can can still find it on eBay in limited supplies. For 25$.
Louise Coscia Thurlow wrote: «Does anyone know why cost of tablets skyrocketed on amazon this month.»
To what price? Just following the link from the WB Marketplace here, I see that the single-box price for ASIN B01AH3RT9Y is $28.99, which is about what I recall paying over a year ago.
Now on the other hand, just starting from the AMZN front page, search results often land on pages where the quantity is 2 or more, so sure, some sticker shock there.
re: «You can can still find it on eBay in limited supplies.»
Inadvisable.
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Would the 10 tablets (or 2 T of product) be adequate for a gallon of liquid or does it need to be more?
cindy r wrote: «Would the 10 tablets (or 2 T of product) be adequate for a gallon of liquid or does it need to be more?»
In my experience, the recipes scale linearly, so for a gallon, you’d need more, and excess starter never hurts.
I make a half gallon at a time, and use 4 (slowly thawed) ice cubes worth, usually 1 cube of yogurt and 3 whey.
all that said, I would not make a gallon from tablets, just due to economics. When I need to start over from tabs, as I did last year due to a freezer malfunction, I make a small batch that will just be used for starter.
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Thank you for your reply. I’ll start with the quart to get whey for future batches.
I make yogurt now using a gallon of milk and 3T of whey with great success (started from a commercial yogurt a couple of years ago). Looking forward to doing this, especially adding the inulin, since I already take inulin daily – now will be combined with my yogurt, also already daily.
Again, thank you.
Does anyone know of a supplier that ships Gastrus on ice? The one on amazon doesn’t. I live in Kentucky and no one around here carries this.
Thanks!
I live in the desert. Mine shipped from Amazon, not on ice. No problems. I make fabulous l reuteri.
lmuzic wrote: «I live in the desert. Mine shipped from Amazon, not on ice. No problems. I make fabulous l reuteri.»
Thanks for the report. That tends to suggest that failures, even in summer, are likely due to other issues.
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I ordered mine in July in Texas and had the best yogurt I’ve ever tasted
I have tried to make this three times following all these steps and each time all I get is liquid whey with maybe an 1 1/2 width band of yogurt at the top of the jar which is more like stiff cottage cheese and very sour. I use a stick sous vide and it maintains a steady temp of 100 degrees. I have gotten up at night to check! Everything is clean and I use the half and half. Any advice? I really want to be able to make and use this. Maybe I got a bad batch of the gastrus tablets.
Ellen wrote: «I have tried to make this three times following all these steps and each time all I get is liquid whey with maybe an 1 1/2 width band of yogurt at the top of the jar which is more like stiff cottage cheese and very sour.»
That’s not uncommon for first batches started from tablets. I hope you didn’t discard any of it, because whatever you chose to not consume makes great starter for the next batch, including the whey. I just started a batch tonight using only saved (frozen/thawed) whey.
re: «…and I use the half and half.»
Let’s rule that out as a possible factor. It contains only milk and cream?
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Bob,
I’ve had the same problem Ellen describes. The odd item in my case is that the first batch started from tablets came out perfectly. It was only when I started the second batch from tablets the problem occurred.
I did use the first batch of yogurt as “starter material” for several subsequent batches. That worked well several times but then yielded a bad batch (odd smell and bad flavor) so I tried the tablets again. That was when the problem started. The result appeared as a milky water with a small coating of yogurt at the top of the jar. That happened three times.
I’ve checked my Gourmia Sous Vide device operation and it is working fine (water temperature was correct at 100.)
I followed the recipe precisely each time including the use of half and half. What do you suggest? I’d like to incorporate this into my daily diet but not sure what is going wrong.
Please let me know your thoughts – thanks.
John
John wrote: «It was only when I started the second batch from tablets the problem occurred.»
How were the tablets stored in the meantime? I suggest refrigeration, if not freezing (as far as I know, the reference cultures at the ATCC are stored in liquid nitrogen, so these strains are quite tolerant of cold).
re: «What do you suggest?»
Dr. Davis had some top-suspect suggestions here (Troubleshooting L. reuteri yogurt-making). You probably have those covered. Let me add a few more things to check.
Retail ingredients: far too many half&half products have added emulsifiers, like carrageenan and polysorbate 80. Apart from being “GRAUS” (Generally Recognized As UnSafe) on this program, effects during fermentation are not well understood. Ditto for added “vitamins” that may be actually there as preservatives (not to mention frank preservatives). I’ve lately had pretty good luck with both Land’O’Lakes and Horizon organic H&H.
Utensils need to be reasonably sterile (as does the inulin or other prebiotic fiber). Whisks are a particularly challenging item to fully clean. Personally, I eliminate these as concerns by re-pasteurizing the dairy, in the fermentation vessel, with the inulin already mixed in, and the whisk present as well. When using generation technique, the state of the serving utensils needs to be considered as well.
The starter needs to be mixed in by hand, and not by using a blender (stick or otherwise). If using frozen starter, ideally thaw it slowly (I allow 8 hours in the fridge). If I screw up the schedule, I’ll set the cubes in a covered glass bowl in a larger bowl of 105°F tap water. Do not apply more heat than that.
Microbial drift: using generational (batch-to-batch) starter, it only takes one incidence of contamination or thermal die-off to affect all subsequent batches. I make this a non-issue with starter batches. If I happen to start from tabs, most of that batch goes into ice cube trays, frozen for use as future starter (and ditto for any whey drained off from subsequent batches). All subsequent batches are made from slowly-thawed cubes of starter. This reduces overall generations from each tab batch, and stabilizes the state of the starter between batches.
Dr. Davis reports being well past 50 batches using a generational technique, and it seems to work well for many people. But is does introduce variables that can be switched off if necessary.
Environment: we’ve had a couple of reports of failure that appear to be linked to nearby diffusers, vaporizers or humidifiers. The ultrasonic devices don’t fully sterilize the working fluids. Evaporative models are just asking for trouble. Turn them off a few hours pre-prep, or run them in a different room.
I basically have a near production-line process now (a half gallon went into the incubator last night), and would at this point be surprised by a batch failure.
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Hi Bob,
Many thanks for your detailed reply. A few additional items to report.
Ingredients: I too used Land O’Lakes half and half for all batches – good and bad.
Utensils: I used a machine washed fork for the mixing of the inulin/gastrus/half and half tablets each time (the mixing bowl was also machine washed.)
I noticed that these ingredients do not mix together easily – even after repeated manual mixings with the fork, small clumps remained in the mixture.
This concerned me given Dr. Davis’ recipe statement of “this prevents clumping of the prebiotic fiber”, so I mixed it again and again by hand but still had small clumps when the remainder of the half and half was added to the mix.
The gastrus tablets had been stored in the cupboard at room temperature prior to making the mix. I don’t recall seeing a “keep refrigerated” notice on the BioGaia product packaging but I may have missed that. I’m certainly willing to try storing it cold if that may be the issue (i.e., non-cold storage decreases the product potency.)
I ordered the BioGaia Gastrus tablets from Amazon – have not located a local vendor in this area (southwest Ohio) who carries it. I also spoke with both Pharmapacks and Mr. Medical this morning – neither offers cold pack delivery of this product. Do you know of a vendor offering cold pack delivery? And would you suggest not ordering it from Amazon during the warmer months?
Environment: As I said, I’m using the Gourmia Sous Vide device and I’ve checked the water temperature. No issues there. No close-by diffusers, vaporizers or humidifiers.
So there are a few more details for you. Please let me know any additional thoughts.
Best,
John
Only milk and cream, yep
Are you mixing your product in a glass jar with non metal utensil prior to “cooking”
I got the same result
I am lactose intolerant.
I believe curd ( since its fermented) shouldn’t be an issue but wondering what you say.
2 1/2 years ago, I had a severe bronchitis and I was prescribed z pak. Within 2 weeks I had bad case of shingles:(
I was prescribed prednisone.
Prior to this course of antibiotic and Steroid pack (with in 1 month ), I have taken an amoxicillin 20 years prior to that.
I regret the antibiotic intake even after 2 1/2 years because I had developed severe resistant strains of recurrent Candidal vaginitis ( took me good 6 months to figure out that it’s antibiotic induced and my immune system was eaten by the Z pak and Steroid ) and even now I have been . The only thing that’s helping is boric acid 600 mg vaginal suppository on an as needed basis which also monthly.
Not only the Candida issues but I have learned that I am not able to tolerate dairy with many GI issues since then, and significant improvement after stopping. I never wanted to give up the yogurt as I think it’s good probiotics ( I make at home ) but wanted to eliminate all dairy as I was feeling miserable ( oh note that I have eliminated grains for 8 years till date ) but I want to get back to my curd intake, the more and more I have been reading the blog, the more I want to make this particular yogurt .
Do you have a comment Dr. Davis ?
Please and thanks!
Madhavi wrote: «I am lactose intolerant.»
Unless that’s been confirmed by a specific challenge with pure lactose, don’t assume that it’s the explanation for your reaction to dairy. It could also be a reaction to the casein beta protein in the dairy products (with A1 being common in North America, or whey, or the hormones (added or native), or the emulsifiers common in retail “dairy” products, and the list doesn’t end there.
re: «I regret the antibiotic intake…»
It does appear that your microbiome has been adversely affected. Have you incorporated any efforts to re-cultivate bowel flora?
Apart from the damage to your prior microbiome state, the Candida suggests fungal overgrowth, and that’s usually accompanied by bacteria overgrowth (SIBO). The Undoctored Inner Circle (subscription) site has a protocol for SIBO, and steps in development for SIFO.
re: «…the more I want to make this particular yogurt.»
There are a couple of recipes for non-dairy versions of it.
But getting back to the reaction; with the 36 hour ferment, the lactose is expected to be gone. The A1 casein issue can be dodged by using A2 bovine dairy (or goat/sheep dairy). The whey often separates on its own, and can be removed.
If you just want to try the Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA 6475 directly, the new Biogaia® Osfortis® product is a much more economical approach to that, vs. the Gastrus®.
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I made my first batch this weekend and I think I had a good outcome. Yogurt is thick and creamy as desired. Looks fine and tastes fine (a little tarter than commercial yogurt – but still good taste). In reading the above comments, I’m concerned about how “picky” the L. Reuteri seems to be about everything (temps, etc.). I kept my sous vide at 100 degrees for 36 hours. However, now I read that there is a concern about shipping temps. Is there any way to know if the bacteria is still alive and well in the yogurt? How can you tell when bacteria counts start to fall off with starter and when you need to start a new batch with tablets/inulin? Thanks for any advice/answers.
Kathy Cranford wrote: «Looks fine and tastes fine (a little tarter than commercial yogurt — but still good taste).»
Sounds like it’s as expected, including the tartness (resulting from the extended ferment time, vs. conventional yogurt). Once ready for consumption (any starter saved off), you can flavor and sweeten to taste using suitable ingredients.
re: «ln reading the above comments, I’m concerned about how “picky” the L. Reuteri seems to be about everything (temps, etc.).»
Actually, I think it’s fairly robust. My guess is that it ferments well over the range 95-110°F, with a peak at 97°F. The main temp problem is that this is lower than standard yogurt cycles, and too many home devices experience peaks near or above 115°F, and provide no means to adjust the target temp down.
Context: keep also in mind that for many people, making this product is their first experience with home fermentation (it was for me). Experience, alas, doesn’t consist of knowing all the answers — it consists of having made all the mistakes.
re: «However, now I read that there is a concern about shipping temps.»
This is a question that needs to be put to Biogaia, except that they probably won’t answer it, on the grounds that making a fermented food with it is off-label. But the label does clearly say
Storage: Store in a dry place, at room temperature (77°F) or below.
re: «Is there any way to know if the bacteria is still alive and well in the yogurt?»
Not until you see how the yogurt turns out. At some point we might know if an inexpensive pH test might help on this.
re: «How can you tell when bacteria counts start to fall off with starter and when you need to start a new batch with tablets/inulin?»
Although wondered about, I have yet to see any indication that CFUs decline over time, even with generational starter. They seem to increase to some sky high level, and stay there. What’s more likely is contamination or other stewardship or ingredient mishaps.
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John wrote: «I too used Land O’Lakes half and half for all batches — good and bad.»
That would tend to rule that out as suspect.
re: «I noticed that these ingredients do not mix together easily — even after repeated manual mixings with the fork, small clumps remained in the mixture.»
That remains a suspect, then. My personal experience is limited here. I normally re-pasteurize, with the inulin whisked in (sprinkled on the top and stirred), and I get no lumps. The one time I did cold-start, I pre-mixed the inulin in a small amount of the dairy, whisked well, and had no lumps. If I were routinely cold-starting, I’d probably use a stick blender to pre-mix the prebiotic.
The next issue might be the saved starter. The yogurt I make now (H&H, 48h) is so thick, that if I were using it as generational starter, I would be concerned about lumps. This doesn’t arise as a factor in my process, because the dedicated starter batches are somewhat watery, and any drained-off whey from later batches definitely is.
re: «I don’t recall seeing a “keep refrigerated” notice on the BioGaia product packaging…»
It doesn’t have one. What it does have is a “Storage: Store in a dry place, at room temperature (77°F) or below.”, and a “Best Before” date. We can read between the lines on those, given that the shelf life of the basic bacteria is apparently indefinite in cryogenic storage.
re: «Do you know of a vendor offering cold pack delivery?»
No, I do not. I’ve bought all of mine in cooler weather so far, and if I needed any in August, I’d probably seek a regional stocking retailer. Biogaia (Sweden) likely has no clue about the North American distribution. Everidis might. Since Amazon sells it, you might expect Whole Foods to stock it, but a quick browse wasn’t able to nail that down.
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I’ve been making this yogurt for about 6 weeks now with what I assume is good batches. Comes out thick like the dr describes. But I have not noticed any health benefits. What have others experienced?
How long will a batch of this yogurt keep in the refrigerator before going bad?
Pam M. wrote: «How long will a batch of this yogurt keep in the refrigerator before going bad?»
The presumption is that the shelf life is comparable to a commercial full-fat live-culture unsweetened plain yogurt, but I haven’t surveyed the market to see what that number might be. My personal production has been as long as 3 weeks (if not more) between batches.
I schedule my production based on consumption, and although I date the lids, that’s mostly just for content ID. I have yet to discard any of this yogurt due to age.
If we ponder this for a moment, when using generational starter (as Dr. Davis) does, a fraction of the initial batch is basically kept going indefinitely. With cautious stewardship, shelf life doesn’t seem to be terribly limited. Note also that in the wider field of fermented foods, the cultures (mother, ‘grains’, scoby) could be decades, or even centuries old.
The yogurt can definitely be frozen indefinitely (that’s how I store my starter). For thawing and later consumption, however, freezing will wreck the consistency. As an ingredient in some frozen food treat, it should be fine.
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Thank you so much for the reply. I like to have yogurt waiting for me when I come back from a trip but have always been concerned if 3 week old yogurt was to old.
Hi there, what is the exact heating unit in the picture? Want to find a good one. The one I have gets too hot. And I do not want to purchase another junk one. :) Thank you!
Andrew wrote: «…what is the exact heating unit in the picture?»
It’s apparently a Gourmia GSV550 sous vide, which model is reportedly discontinued (and that’s likely why it was not endorsed in the article).
re: «And I do not want to purchase another junk one.»
Important tip for our increasingly post-store-front era: when you get down to a short list of candidate devices, download the user manuals. For our purposes here, see what the steps are to set them to somewhere in the range 95-105°F for 36 hours (or at least 12, so you can sleep). Check also the internal dimensions vs. the storage containers you plan to use.
If you can’t download the manual, that tells you something important about the brand (and I use this checkoff item on anything priced over US$10 these days). Also be skeptical about user reviews on-line. The highest are at some risk of being brand fakes or paid shills. The lowest ranked may be competitor sabotage or random web vandals.
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Bob et al,
Wanted to let you know that I’ve successfully made my 1st batch of yogurt using the BioGaia Osfortis strain. I’ve made 80+ batches using the BioGaia Gastrus. The Osfortis strain tastes good and is also quite thick. A bottle of the Osfortis would last a year or so of making yogurt or you could make frozen “muffins” as starter, but at 1 capsule per batch, it is so simple to do.
1. One quart of Organic Valley Half & Half + contents of 1 BioGaia Osfortis capsule + 1 TBS Dextrose. I do not use Inulin.
2. Heat liquid to 180° and cool in an ice/water bath for about 6 minutes.
3. Pour cooled liquid into container with the dextrose & Osfortis. Stir. I use a wide-mouth, wide 2 qt glass container.
4. Place into sous vide container at 101° (or thereabout) for 30-36 hours.
5. Remove and cool in refrigerator overnight.
There is no whey on top.
So I’m happy with the Osfortis strain used in making this yogurt.
Richard
Richard wrote: «Wanted to let you know that I’ve successfully made my 1st batch of yogurt using the BioGaia Osfortis strain.»
Excellent. Thanks for the report.
re: «A bottle of the Osfortis would last a year or so of making yogurt…»
I would think it would last basically forever, if you use the capsules to make dedicated starter batches, cube and freeze them.
re: «…1 TBS Dextrose. I do not use Inulin.»
I generally caution people on using fast carbs, rather than prebiotic carbs. Although it probably all gets metabolized (so presents no net carb exposure on consumption), it also might be consumed too rapidly, and there could be excess die-off in a long ferment.
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I do make starter batches and freeze the cubes with the Gastrus. May or may not do that with the Osfortis.
“Although it probably all gets metabolized (so presents no net carb exposure on consumption), it also might be consumed too rapidly, and there could be excess die-off in a long ferment.”
I wish I knew if this is so. The only prebiotic product I have is Hyperbiotics Prebiotic which is organic acacia fiber, organic Jerusalem artichoke fiber, and organic green banana flour. I could do an experiment to see if it will work instead of the dextrose. It might change the taste but only way to know is to try it.
Richard
Richard wrote: «I wish I knew if this is so.»
So do I.☺
re: «The only prebiotic product I have is Hyperbiotics Prebiotic which is organic acacia fiber, organic Jerusalem artichoke fiber, and organic green banana flour. I could do an experiment to see if it will work instead of the dextrose.»
And it would be an experiment. It’s nothing I’ve tried. I did try glucomannan (konjac) powder, but it congealed excessively. The green banana flour, by the way, is probably not all prebiotic (due to heating in drying and milling) and may all be converted to available carbs by repasteurization.
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Well, rather than experiment with the prebiotic blend and to ease my mind of the possibility of the excess die-off with dextrose, I’ve ordered inulin (Jerusalem artichoke). So the next batch with Osfortis will be with inulin. 1 Tbs inulin for 1 qt 1/2 & 1/2?
I’m enjoying a bowl of the yogurt right now – wow, it is so tasty and quite thick. Thanks.
Richard wrote: «So the next batch with Osfortis will be with inulin. 1 Tbs inulin for 1 qt 1/2 & 1/2?»
Well, the official recipe above says: “2 tablespoons of prebiotic fiber such as inulin or raw potato starch … 1 quart of half-and-half…”
And that’s what I do: 2 tbsp/qt., usually ½ gallon per batch.
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2 Tbs/qt. Thanks.
Richard: The measure is 2 Tbsp of inulin per quart of liquid! And just as when making a roue in old days of flour & water gravy thickening, add tiny drops of Half & Half with inulin at a time to create the slurry without any lumps! Works well.
Thank you for the slurry tip Jan. I had forgotten about that.
I have made this with organic heavy whipping cream and it is delicious! My DIL wants to make this for her kids – 6, 8, and 10 and add her own fresh fruits. I have tried this out for them to see how easy it is to make. Her question is can she make frozen “pops” out of it or will it reduce the benefits?
Kmcclearn wrote: «…can she make frozen “pops” out of it or will it reduce the benefits?»
As far as I know, the benefits are not impaired. What can happen, however, is separation in freezing. This might not be a big issue for direct-frozen treats on sticks. When I start from tablets, I make a dedicated starter batch, which is frozen as ice cubes. I haven’t noticed any stratification in them, but I have seen one report from someone who froze a larger quantity.
Making ice cream, on the other hand, might kill off the live L.reuteri bacteria due to shear, which might reduce benefits somewhat.
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There was a great, long post in the Undoctored Inner Circle Forum from someone who experimented with popsicles! Forget now if any issues.
I don’t know where to post this – I don’t see any way to contact Wheatbellyblog. Question:
Membership in the wheatbellyblog includes a private Facebook page. What if I don’t have (and do not want) a Facebook account (!) – would I still be able to use the private Wheatbelly site without having to register at Facebook? If not, I sure wish WBB used something else.
Richard
Richard wrote: «Membership in the wheatbellyblog includes a private Facebook page. What if I don’t have (and do not want) a Facebook account…»
It doesn’t appear that having an FB account is required. No FB-related information is asked for on the top enrollment page, but not having stepped through that process any further, I’m not sure what might be entered later (and having never had an FB account myself, I’d have limited insight on that end of things anyway).
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Thanks Bob. There must be someone who knows definitively whether the private Wheatbellyblog FB group requires FB membership (in addition to the WB membership). Webmaster? Current WB member? Dr. Davis?
Richard wrote: «There must be someone who knows definitively whether the private Wheatbellyblog FB group requires FB membership (in addition to the WB membership).»
I think you can presume that it does. I don’t think any FB pages are open to commenting by non-members. Private groups are often not even read-only for non-FB users. They further require “joining” the private group, which presumably requires some group moderator approval, perhaps automatic for the present scenario.
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Yeah, I think you are right in that FB membership is required. At least with the WB membership, users can still comment here on the blog – I hope. Thanks Bob.
Richard wrote: «At least with the WB membership, users can still comment here on the blog — I hope.»
If it’s open for comments, and you can see it, you can comment. Posts have been closing to comments (by anyone other than admins and moderators) after 14 days in recent years. I’m not aware of any changes pending relative to that.
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A few of the WB Facebook Group and the WB 10-Day Grain Detox Facebook Group members say they do not use Facebook for any other purpose than to follow those two groups. So you can be selective and lock down your privacy with a FB membership just for the great learning opportunities in those groups. The detox group is a game-changer to those new to the lifestyle as you get constant support, examples, hints, tips , recipes, solutions, etc., for the program.
First batch made -quart of whole milk, 10 tablets, 2 T inulin, 36-37 hours. Is certainly tart, but not that much more tart than my usual yogurt incubated for 24 hours. It’s a different kind of tart though, more ‘sour’ tasting for lack of a better word. Not bad, just different. Hoping I’ll get used to it and learn to love it. Not there yet as I really love my previous yogurt.
Was wondering, thinking of my usual yogurt, if there are benefits to the usual ‘probiotics’ in yogurt and if my regular yogurt whey can be combined with the L reuteri yogurt whey when making another batch? Would the dilution of L reuteri with the ‘regular’ whey result in less or minimal L reuteri benefit?
Cindy wrote: «It’s a different kind of tart though, more ‘sour’ tasting for lack of a better word.»
Add at serving time: blueberries or other low net carb fruit; safe sweetener (stevia, monk fruit, erythritol, xylitol, perhaps allulose).
re: «…if there are benefits to the usual ‘probiotics’ in yogurt…»
Yes. That’s probably why they are a traditional human food.
re: «…and if my regular yogurt whey can be combined with the L reuteri yogurt whey when making another batch?»
With some care. See on the blog last month: L reuteri and oxytocin . . . for everybody?
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Thank you for directing me to that post from last month. Being well beyond child-bearing age, I think I’ll just keep full L reuteri yogurt and a full regular yogurt available at all times and consume both daily… I do love my greek style yogurt so no problem with consuming both daily. I love it plain, on soups, vegetables, etc., and will assume that with the incubation of 36 hours, carbs are at a minimum in both.
I’ve always mixed the crushed tablets with cooled half and half then added the inulin. Am I correct in understanding that I can actually add the inulin to the half and half as I am heating it to 180 degrees then add the starter/tablets to the cooles H&H/inulin combo?
David wrote: «I’ve always mixed the crushed tablets with cooled half and half then added the inulin.»
That’s the official recipe.
re: «Am I correct in understanding that I can actually add the inulin to the half and half as I am heating it to 180 degrees then add the starter/tablets to the cooles H&H/inulin combo?»
It’s an option (as is re-pasteurization, if that’s what you are doing). Doing a re-past with the inulin mixed in, and the whisk in the pot, is what I do. This has the benefits of enhanced sterility, and possible further denaturing of casein and whey. When starting from tablets (which I rarely need to do) I would pull off some of the cooled mix and make a slurry.
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My first attempt at making this yogurt ended up a failure as I grew pink mold on the top surface. Scrape off the mold, and the texture/color of the yogurt underneath was very good. However, the mold ruins the batch. Here are the possibile things that could have caused the demise, please let me know what think and if you can think of anything else:
1. Contamination – the most obvious. Everything used to make the batch was clean but not strictly sterilized. Next time, I plan on boiling everything for at least 15 minutes. The only issue is the mortar and pestle, which I worry is just too porous, even for sterlization. I was thinking the next time I would use the plastic bag/rolling pin technique. Please let me know if you have any other methods that work for you.
2. Not enough starter for the amount of UP half-n-half/time. I wanted to do a 1/2 gallon and had consulted various sources online that had made this yogurt, who recommended that I didn’t need to use as much tabs and inulin in scaling up. I only used 15 tabs and 3 Tbsp inulin. So, it is possible that I just didn’t have enough starter to keep it going for 36 hours. I have also seen where others only do 24 hours for this yogurt. Any thoughts on that?
3. Stainless steel – what is the issue with stainless steel? I used a SS fork to mix the powders and make the “roux” in a ceramic bowl. Then, I poured this roux directly in the SS liner of an Instant Pot and used a stainless steel wisk to combine. The batch was fermented directly in the SS instant pot liner. (Note: I tested the instant pot temp and it holds consistently around 104-degrees F)
Stephanie Green wrote: «My first attempt at making this yogurt ended up a failure as I grew pink mold on the top surface.»
There are a number of suspects for that, and you’re addressing several. Be sure to shut off any humidifiers or other vaporizers during prep.
re: «Next time, I plan on boiling everything for at least 15 minutes.»
My practice is to {re}pasteurize the substrate+inulin, in the fermenting vessel, whisk-in, for 180+°F for 10-20 minutes, then re-cool to just above fermentation temp for adding starter.
re: «The only issue is the mortar and pestle, which I worry is just too porous, even for sterlization.»
For a nogurt based on Biogaia® Gastrus®, some people simply smash the tablets while still in the blister pack, using a flat-faced mallet. For a ceramic or rock M&P, it should be possible to bake the M&P in an oven, then cool it on a rack before use.
re: «Not enough starter for the amount of UP half-n-half/time. I wanted to do a 1/2 gallon…»
Everything scales linearly, up to a gallon or so for a single fermenting container. But when I (rarely) have to start over from probiotic, I now make just a quart, and treat most of if as starter (frozen as cubes, slowly thawed for use) for the “real” batches to follow. Initial batches from tablets tend to be curdy, stratified, and have lots of liquid whey fraction. I wouldn’t want to make a lot of that at once.
re: «So, it is possible that I just didn’t have enough starter to keep it going for 36 hours. I have also seen where others only do 24 hours for this yogurt.»
The inverse. Less starter means you need to run longer. I routinely run all my batches to 48 hours, primarily for scheduling convenience. With the various microbes we’re so far using, 24h is apt to be unsatisfactory no matter how started.
re: «Stainless steel – what is the issue with stainless steel?»
None that I know of. I use an SS pot for {re}pasteurization & ferment, an SS whisk, and an SS thermometer probe. The whisk does need careful sterilization post-blending, due to the ample crevasses where the wires enter the handle.
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Thanks so much Bob. Your guidance is immensly helpful. A couple of thoughts/questions…
1. It is in the vicinity of an electric kettle that gets used several times a day to boil water up for tea. So, probably should move it away from that.
2. You repasturize even if you are using ultra-pasturized substrate? If so, what is your reasoning? To avoid the issue I had?
3. During repasturization, do you whisk the inulin into the substrate prior to heating or when it gets up to temperature? It looks like you leave the whisk in the bowl? Do you whisk throughout the repasturization process?
4. I can only set my yogurt setting on my Instant Pot to 104-degrees with the custom setting (there is also 91 degrees for the low setting but that is too low and the medium setting is 107-degrees.) Is 104-degrees F OK from your experience?
I hear you about the 48-hour protocol. I got excited to try this first batch after work and then realized that 36 hours would be over at 3:30am. Very disappointing to get up in the middle of the night to pink mold!
Stephanie Green wrote: «It is in the vicinity of an electric kettle that gets used several times a day to boil water up for tea.»
That’s boiled water, which I wouldn’t consider a risk. The atomizers tend to be cold ultrasonic, which may not shatter all microbes.
re: «You repasturize even if you are using ultra-pasturized substrate? If so, what is your reasoning?»
Several reasons:
• My incubator can’t cold-start, so I have to at least pre-heat.
• It sterilizes the pot, whisk & inulin.
• It causes the inulin to disperse more evenly.
• It denatures some of the milk proteins.
re: «During repasturization, do you whisk the inulin into the substrate prior to heating or when it gets up to temperature?»
I whisk before re-past and during re-cool, but not during heating. It takes several minutes to re-cool, so it gets mixed well.
re: «Is 104-degrees F OK from your experience?»
That’s likely fine for the L.reuteri & L.casei, but may be too low for the B.coagulans
re: «I hear you about the 48-hour protocol.»
Even so, you still have to check the calendar for conflicts.
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Can the L.reuteri recipe above be doubled? I have th Luvele yogurt maker with 2 litre jar and would love to fill it up. I’m assuming (bad ifea) that I would double the starter and potato starch? How about cook time?
Could this yogurt be stored in air tight Tupperware container?
Any help would be appreciated! Thank you.
Nancy Walzer wrote: «Can the L.reuteri recipe above be doubled?»
The recipes all scale linearly, up and and down, although I don’t think we have any reports for more than a gallon as a single container. If you double the substrate, double the starter and the prebiotic fiber.
re: «I have th Luvele yogurt maker with 2 litre jar and would love to fill it up.»
Based on reports, don’t completely fill the jar, and don’t tightly cap it. The ferment is apparently expansive to some degree. I use an oversize pot with vented lid, so have no exact metrics on this.
re: «I’m assuming (bad ifea) that I would double the starter and potato starch?»
No problem. I just use inulin anymore, as I have clumping problems with potato starch.
re: «How about cook time?»
No change.
re: «Could this yogurt be stored in air tight Tupperware container?»
Yes. At the completion of ferment, I transfer my progurts to Ball® jars, with lids slightly tight.
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Thank you!
Hi Bob, thanks for the info! I have made a double batch twice now and both times a crust formed on the bottom. Now this normal? Other than that the yogurt came out great.
Thank you!
Nancy Walzer wrote: «I have made a double batch twice now and both times a crust formed on the bottom. Now this normal?»
No, that’s not normal. I never see anything like that with any of the recipes in my process.
What device and container(s) are you using? If fermenting in a smart-pot type device, directly in the pot, and in particular if doing a cold start, what you may be seeing is overheating in the pot base near the heating elements.
If so, a couple of things might be done to reduce or eliminate the problem.
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I have th Luvele yogurt maker with 2 litre jar and would love to fill it up.
Regular recipe calls for 1qt. of h&h, 2 Tbl raw potato starch, 2 Tbl of previous batch of yogurt.
I have doubled the recipe, 2qts. of h&h, 4 Tbl of raw potato starch and 4 Tbl of previous batch of yogurt.
Kept it in the yogurt maker (luvele) 36 hours!
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Nancy Walzer wrote: «I have th Luvele yogurt maker…»
What temperature does it run at (or that you are setting it to)?
re: «…with 2 litre jar and would love to fill it up.»
In my experience, the recipes scale up and down, up to a gallon at least. More than about 10 inches deep might introduce issues.
re: «Regular recipe calls for 1qt. of h&h, 2 Tbl raw potato starch, 2 Tbl of previous batch of yogurt.»
I haven’t used unmodified potato starch in some time, because I found it to congeal on the bottom. I use inulin only anymore (and do other things differently, as noted at previous link). The PS may or may not explain your crust.
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I set temperature to 100 degrees. I will try the inulin, when the container is filled with a double batch it’s about 5-6 inches high with about inch and half to top which is vented.
I will try the inulin. Thank you!
Hi Bob. Ran into a problem with the yogurt and would appreciate your advice.
The first time I made it, used the modified recipe on the Luvele yogurt maker website and it worked great. But this time I wanted to try the original recipe.
I mixed 2 tablespoons of NOW inulin with 10 crushed tablets of Gastrus. Mixed those into about a 1/4 cup of organic half and half to make the slurry, then poured in the rest of the quart. Put the Jar in the luvele yogurt maker at 100 degrees for 36 hours.
I got a hard cake with a lot of whey underneath. The cake looked like cottage cheese but even more crumbly and tasted like cheese (thankfully there was no mold, discoloration, etc.).
I tried using a 1/4 cup of that whey and made a second batch, this time setting the machine at 97 degrees. 12 hours later, the same cake had formed but I kept it incubating for the full 36 hours. When I opened the jar, it looked just like the first batch except it tasted more tangy, with a bit of an alcohol tang like kombucha.
Do you think I over-incubated or would this result be due to contamination? (I sterilized all materials in my instant pot beforehand but contamination is always possible).
The only things I did differently from my first attempt is mixing the inulin with the gastrus BEFORE adding any liquid (I normally make the inulin slurry before I add the gastrus to it) and incubating at 100 instead of 97.
Lastly, would this “cottage cheese” product be safe to eat? I’m not too concerned with taste and texture… just the l. reuteri benefits. Thanks!
jaybird8521 wrote: «I got a hard cake with a lot of whey underneath. The cake looked like cottage cheese but even more crumbly and tasted like cheese (thankfully there was no mold, discoloration, etc.).»
That’s common for initial batches started from retail probiotic. I pour off the whey fraction, and save it in ice cube form for use as starter. I may even treat the whole initial batch as starter.
re: «I tried using a 1/4 cup of that whey and made a second batch, this time setting the machine at 97 degrees. 12 hours later, the same cake had formed but I kept it incubating for the full 36 hours. When I opened the jar, it looked just like the first batch except it tasted more tangy, with a bit of an alcohol tang like kombucha.»
That’s not expected — not the stratification or the alcohol aroma. Fungi & yeast ferment to alcohol; bacteria don’t.
re: «Do you think I over-incubated…»
Doubtful. I routinely incubate to 48 hours for convenience. Also, 97 vs. 100°F makes no difference in my experience. I don’t get concerned about the temp (for L.reuteri) unless the temp goes outside the range 95-105°F.
re: «…would this result be due to contamination?»
Possibly, but that normally results in much more obvious growths and/or discolorations. Opportunistic airbornes typically just show up as surface colonies. One tip to avoid them is to shut down any diffusers, humidifiers, and maybe even heating/cooling air handling during prep.
As mentioned in some of the older comments above, I further seek sterility by re-pasteurizing the H&H, with the inulin and the whisk in the final ferment pot, covered, then re-cooled to 105°F for adding the starter.
re: «…would this “cottage cheese” product be safe to eat?…»
I would have no way to guess. I treat first-batch-curds as consumable in my own prep, but none have done what you’re describing (nor has anyone else reported the alcohol aroma).
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Thanks, Bob. I’ll try heating the H&H and see if that helps.
Hi Bob. As you suggested, I believe I have a yeast problem. Interestingly enough, these bad batches didn’t start until after I started making bread in my kitchen a few weeks back.
Typically, by 12 hours in, I’ll see the stratification and know the batch is no good. Yesterday’s batch looked fine 12 hours (just a solid mass with liquid underneath) in but by 24 hours, the bad signs were there again (lots of curds, bubbles in the whey and a faint yeasty smell). Subsequent batches made with the whey are even worse, and create a syrupy, bubbly whey that smells like alcohol.
I started re-pasturing with the inulin in the pot, then only stirring with utensils that were cleaned and re-dipped in boiling water before they come into contact with the milk. Im crushing the pills in the blister packs. I clean my luvelle yogurt cleaner (lid and base) before starting and then I don’t use kitchen for a day once the machine is turned on.
Is airborne yeast a possibility? The only other thing I can think of is that the luvelle is over-heating the substrate even though I set it to 97 deg.
Also, even though I’m only making a quart at a time, there are some gasses that get released which pop off the cover on the luvelle jar every few hours. I’ve just been leaving it the way it is (instead of refastening it) but maybe that loose top is allowing yeast to get in there? I’m pulling my hair out over this.
If I can’t solve this issue, is coconut milk less likely to be contaminated by yeast? Or would I most likely have the same problem with the other recipe?
jaybird8521 wrote: «…I believe I have a yeast problem. Interestingly enough, these bad batches didn’t start until after I started making bread in my kitchen a few weeks back.»
What recipe is that bread? There are as yet no canonical yeast bread recipes in the program, but it is thought to be possible.
re: «…(lots of curds, bubbles in the whey and a faint yeasty smell). Subsequent batches made with the whey are even worse, and create a syrupy, bubbly whey that smells like alcohol.»
Sure sounds like some unauthorized yeast. Beergurt.
re: «I started re-pasturing with the inulin in the pot, then only stirring with utensils that were cleaned and re-dipped in boiling water before they come into contact with the milk.»
I just leave the whisk in the pot during re-pasteurization and cool-down.
re: «…and then I don’t use kitchen for a day once the machine is turned on.»
If everything is covered, that seems a bit overkill. I’ll make sure the diffuser is off, but that’s about it for air handling. Of course the humidity is generally low here in KS. I rarely get contamination with my current setup — loosely covered pot in a cooler with the lid closed.
re: «Is airborne yeast a possibility?»
Sure, among other airborne opportunists.
re: «The only other thing I can think of is that the luvelle is over-heating the substrate even though I set it to 97 deg.»
If you are doing warm-start, or water bath, that would surprise me. But with any thermostatically controlled device, some thought needs to be given to what stands between the heating elements, the recipe ingredients, and where the temperature sensor is.
On the not-so-smart pot I originally bought for this application, the metal pot was in direct contact with the outer heating rings, and the sensor was dead center. Hot spots were likely. On the warm-start rig I use now, the driving temp (air heated by a 75W bulb) is never more than 2°F higher than the target temp.
re: «Also, even though I’m only making a quart at a time, there are some gasses that get released which pop off the cover on the luvelle jar every few hours.»
I use a vented pot lid, so have no direct experience with out-gassing, but it seems likely. Also, volume does seem to increase, so completely filling pots and jars is an independent issue. If I switch to fermenting directly in the Ball® jars, I would use plastic lids, not fully tightened.
re: «…is coconut milk less likely to be contaminated by yeast?»
The non-dairy recipes so far appear to be even more challenging than dairy, due to the source substrate wanting to stratify, and the need to provide something for the lactose role. In the specific case of coconut, the fats tend to be anti-microbial (we keep our open oils at room temp), so this property is both your aide on yeast, but not your pal on ferment time, nor on being able to use saved yogurt as starter.
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I just posted below but this is sounding like what I just ended up with.
Now to add to that I had made a mixed yogurt with this same setup before and had no issues. Very creamy and smooth. Very little whet. But for that I used a different l reuteri strain not realizing the biogaia brand was specific.
How do I create the second d/subsequent batches off of the first batch?
Andrea D’Amico wrote: «How do I create the second d/subsequent batches off of the first batch?»
There are two general approaches:
1. Generational
Use 1 tbsp. (15 mL) of saved yogurt from the prior batch, per quart or litre of yogurt.
2. Dedicated
Save off any drained whey fraction, or a saved portion of an initial batch. Freeze it in an ice cube mold. Slowly thaw 1 or 2 cubes per litre or quart.
I use method #2, and thaw the cubes by placing them in sealed container, in the refrigerator, 8-12 hour before making the next batch.
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I just tried making this. There was a lot of whey. And the curds were fairly granular and not smooth. . Is this normal?
My sous vide is a basin type is holding at just a nudge below 102°. I can’t get it lower. I’m looking for other alternatives.
Looking for tips and advice.
Kasommer wrote: «I just tried making this. There was a lot of whey. And the curds were fairly granular and not smooth. . Is this normal?»
It’s normal for a first batch, started from Biogaia® Gastrus® tablets. See tips here.
re: «My sous vide is a basin type is holding at just a nudge below 102°. I can’t get it lower.»
I would not expect that to be a big problem. I consider staying in the 95-105°F range to be safe for the strains of L.reuteri we use.
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I recently made my first batch of L.reuteri yogurt using the exact recipe by Dr. Davis. It turned out perfect! Just made second batch and it turned out very lumpy and creamy, though it still tastes good. The only thing I did differently was I used previously frozen half and half (I bought quality half and half from Whole foods without any additives and thus had a short expiration time). I thought it was completely thawed when I mixed it though there were some solids in the bottle after I poured it into the bowl. I also still used the gastrus tabs as a starter since I ate all of the other batch! Any ideas on what happened with this? Can I still eat this? It’s not very appetizing but I thought I might use it for cooking/dressings calling for yogurt
nmpa wrote: «Just made second batch and it turned out very lumpy and creamy, though it still tastes good.»
That’s actually pretty common for batches made from tablets. More tips.
re: «…since I ate all of the other batch!»
Fill an ice cube tray with it. Freeze it. Bag it. Use 1 or 2 cubes/quart, slowly thawed, as starter.
My personal process involves {re}pasteurizing the dairy, with the inulin mixed in. I would actually consider using expired dairy via this method.
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Can I use FOS powder for the prebiotic?
Kimberly Guay wrote: «Can I use FOS powder for the prebiotic?»
I wouldn’t hesitate to use it if I were out of ordinary inulin. It is apt to be more expensive than inulin, particularly if it’s NutraFlora® FOS.
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Hello,
Can corn starch (sold under the Maizena brand) be used as prebiotic fiber instead of potato starch or inulin?
Nicolás Colla wrote: «Can corn starch … be used as prebiotic fiber instead of potato starch or inulin?»
No. It contains the adverse protein zein (a functional analog of wheat gliadin {in gluten}).
Unless organic, it will also have pesticide uptake. Unless non-GMO, it may be a pesticide (Bt toxin), with these latter two problems making it exactly the opposite of what you want in a microbial fermentation substrate.
re: «…Maizena…»
That brand may further contain sulfur dioxide, a preservative (so yet another antagonist to fermentation).
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Thank you very much for the quick response!
So I understand that we should use organic potato starch only.
Regarding the milk, I plan to use the brand Puleva Eco, which is classified as “ecological” and has the EU “eco” label. According to the brand, the milk of all cows that need an antibiotic treatment is automatically discarded from the batches. Do you think this is safe enough to use? Or is there anything else one should look for in order to avoid killing the bacteria?
Nicolás Colla wrote: «So I understand that we should use organic potato starch only.»
Not necessarily. I use only inulin in my progurts, finding unmodified potato starch to not provide a consistency I like.
re: «According to the brand, the milk of all cows that need an antibiotic treatment is automatically discarded from the batches. Do you think this is safe enough to use?»
How much antibiotic (AB) remains in the final milk is an interesting question, both for the ferment, and for consumption of the final progurt. Using an AB-free product is of course ideal.
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I didn’t have much potato starch. So I mixed five crushed tablets with (barely) a tablespoon of potato starch.
Do you think this was enough potato starch? Will the yoghurt turn out okay?
Juan Gómez wrote: «… So I mixed five crushed tablets with (barely) a tablespoon of potato starch. …»
How much dairy substrate (half&half) did you use?
The recipe scales, so using only 5 tablets would normally suggest starting with a pint of H&H, not a quart.
Using less starter, and less prebiotic fiber may result in a thinner first batch. It’s not something with which I’ve experimented.
In any case, the batch should be suitable for use a starter for the next batch.
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Has any research been done regarding when the best time is to consume the L. reuteri yogurt? Empty stomach, before, with or after meals? The reason I ask is that I believe that the stomach’s digestion will destroy most of the beneficial bacteria that we have worked so hard to create, correct? Do more survive if diluted with other foods or certain other foods?
Joseph Cyr wrote: «…best time is to consume the L. reuteri yogurt?»
As a default insight on that, neither the carton nor the insert sheet for Biogaia® Gastrus® say anything at all as regards timing, in labeled use. You’d have to dig into a lot of the published data to see what any clinical studies did.
re: «… believe that the stomach’s digestion will destroy most of the beneficial bacteria that we have worked so hard to create…»
That would be a legit concern if the benefits were strictly due to bacteria activity in the colon, but the full spectrum of benefits for these strains doesn’t appear to rely solely on that. Consider also:
which isn’t going to be impaired by digestive mechanisms
which is likely to be chiefly beneficial in the upper GI tract
such as SCFAs, which work their intestinal benefits everywhere
Effects reported often vanish within a few days to a week after discontinuing these ‘progurts’. This suggests that at our current state of knowledge, we aren’t yet obtaining persistent re-establishment of these ancestral comensals no matter how we consume them. We await further developments on this.
If you dig into the papers, you also are unlikely to encounter any studies that used CFU portion sizes as high as provided in a typical serving of a program progurt. Sheer volume alone may ensure that many viable microbes make it down to the colon.
And if you follow papers, be aware that the taxonomy of Lactobacillus changed in mid-2020. Going forward, Lactobacillus reuteri is going to be reported as Limosilactobacillus reuteri, and it’s not the only strain affected by this.
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I make kefir all the time simply by leaving the grains and fresh cold full fat milk mixture in a glass jar and on my counter for 24-36 hours. Obviously my house it typically a lower temp than 100 but would this ‘yogurt’ recipe ferment correctly at a lower temp if left out longer than 36 hours?
MichV wrote: «…leaving the grains and fresh cold full fat milk mixture in a glass jar and on my counter for 24-36 hours. Obviously my house it typically a lower temp than 100 but would this ‘yogurt’ recipe ferment correctly at a lower temp if left out longer than 36 hours?»
Kefir grains have sort-of self-selected over the eons to work at room temp.
Now I’m no expert on fermented foods, but here’s my concern with doing that for any of the program progurts: the species and strains used have peak reproduction temps in the 95-125°F range (varies by microbe). Growth falls off below the optimal temp. And, we are using an unusually long incubation time for a ‘yogurt’. This may give opportunistic environmental microbes an enhanced chance of messing things up…
…particularly if you run the ferment even longer to compensate for the reduced growth rate of the target bacteria.
For anyone who owns a cooler, two pots, a jar, and a thermometer, it would be zero cost to set up a passive rig that could deliver 95-105°F for L.reuteri. Use tap water to fill one pot to 105. Set in cooler. Close cooler. Replace with second pot when first declines to 95.
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Do you think that a non-contact thermometer, as in one used to measure body temperature, could be used to check the yogurt base temperature during the cooling process after pasteurization? I use a clear glass container in my Luvele adjustable yogurt machine. This would definitely reduce the possibility of external contamination during this very vulnerable period.
Cooling process tip: I use wet paper towels wrapped around the glass fermentation vessel to aid in the cooling process. So far, this system has worked quite well for me.
Joseph Cyr wrote: «…non-contact thermometer, as in one used to measure body temperature, could be used to check the yogurt base temperature during the cooling process after pasteurization?»
Sorry; I don’t know, never having used one (and also not being familiar with their principles of operation, I don’t even have decent guess).
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Making my first batch. Unfortunately I just realized that 36 hrs will end at 2;30am! The stick souse vide should keep it at 100 degrees, but should I get up and put the “yogurt” in the refrigerator ?
Thanks!
traincop44 wrote: «Making my first batch. Unfortunately I just realized that 36 hrs will end at 2;30am!»
I used to routinely run my batches to 48h, and sometimes unintentionally to 54h.
re: «The stick souse vide should keep it at 100 degrees, but should I get up and put the “yogurt” in the refrigerator ?»
If you let it run, make sure the temp will be sustained until you can get to it. If it were my batch, and I happened to get up in the night, I’d don the blue-blockers, and chuck it in the fridge. Otherwise, waiting until morning works.
First batches tend to not be super homogenous, so if it’s curdy with a fair amount of watery whey fraction, don’t blame the run time.
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I am wondering how many, if any, net carbs are in my reuteri yoguet made with half-n-half. Does the tart taste tell me that all the sugar has been eaten up by the bacteria during the fermenting process? and that there are no net carbs? I would love that!
rbuchmann wrote: «I am wondering how many, if any, net carbs are in my reuteri yoguet made with half-n-half.»
Here are my guesses for net carbs in ½ cup:
Macro ½c Amt % RemarksFat 14.7g 12.1% started with 14.0 g
Sat. Fat 8.9g 7.4% started with 8.5 g
Trans Fat 0g 0% -
Sodium 50mg -% in case anyone cares
Total Carb 3g 2.5% started with 5 g (4.1%)
Dietary Fiber 2g 1.7% started with 0g; presumes some inulin left
Net Carb 1g 0.8% presumes lactose gone
Protein 3.5g 2.9% presumes unchanged,
which meets n.c. targets even for a full cup,
re: «Does the tart taste tell me that all the sugar has been eaten up by the bacteria during the fermenting process?»
It’s a strong clue. If you have a BG meter, you can confirm it with an FBG pre-portion, and a PPBG at 30-60 min. after start of portion.
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Hello all,
I started my first batch tonight. I read the previous comments and did not see anything that indicated if the base mix and the water in the sous vide should be heated before starting the 36 hour countdown. Any thoughts on this. I was wondering if I need to increase the ferment time if I start the process with a cold base mixture.
Thanks, Tom
Hthomas wrote: «…if the base mix and the water in the sous vide should be heated before starting the 36 hour countdown.»
You might be the first person to ask that question. None of the official recipes or other discussions differentiate between cold-start and warm-start. Chances are that most people are doing cold-start, excepting those using raw milk, which must be pasteurized, then cooled — so probably warm-start in that case.
Whether or not to even bother with a time adjustment might come down to just how fast your process reaches optimal ferment temp. If minutes, don’t bother. If an hour, add an hour.
For devices that directly heat the fermentation vessels, and heat quickly, another consideration is avoiding hot spots near the heating elements. Doing a warm-start might mitigate any risk there. This is typically not an issue with a sous vide.
In my personal process, my incubator can’t cold start, and due to having used fresh goat milk, I just got into the habit of [re]pasteurizing, and cooling to final temp. I run it for 36 hours (or more), regardless.
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Hi Bob,
I wanted to go over a couple of things:
I bought the Hamilton Beach machine featured in the equipment area. I was concerned when owner’s manual says the lowest temp is 40*C (104*f). However, I figured I would give it a try and monitor the temp over the course of the 36 hours. I read that temps above 104*F would not be good for L. Reuteri. During the first 20 hours or so the temp stayed at 104.6. However, when the 36 hours ended I took a final reading and the probe hit 107* but immediately dropped to 106.4*. I dont know how long the temp was at 106/107 during the last 16 hours. My question is this: how significant is 107*F? I am willing to spend more money on a machine that has the ability to maintain a lower temp but did the higher reading of 107* ruin the batch. The batch turned out very nice and creamy and it tastes good. My concern is if the higher temp killed the L. Reuteri that I wanted?
Thank you in advance for your comments.
Tom
Hthomas wrote: «I bought the Hamilton Beach machine featured in the equipment area.»
That would be the H-B 33970?
re: «…when owner’s manual says the lowest temp is 40*C (104*f).»
I’m asking for the model number because the downloadable PDF for the 33970 doesn’t appear to document what temperature range it covers. I personally have no experience with any sous vide, and instead use a lightbulb in a cooler with a thermostatic probe controller to cycle the bulb.
re: «I read that temps above 104*F would not be good for L. Reuteri.»
Peak reproduction temp is reportedly 97°F, and that’s what I use when just making L.reut progurt. We have folks making blends that include L.reut, at temps up to 106°F.
re: «…did the higher reading of 107* ruin the batch. The batch turned out very nice and creamy and it tastes good.»
107°F is likely not a big problem. L.reut reportedly croaks at 122°F. The cooler rig at my house replaced what turned out to be a not-so-smart-pot in which the basically undocumented “yogurt” cycle ran at 100-115°F; that’s too hot for ideal L.reut results, but still not fatal.
Save any whey fraction, or a portion of the completed progurt, and use it as starter next time. If the result is similar, you may not need to replace the gizmo.
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