(Stock photo–not a real example.)
I would like to offer you a fun and exciting challenge in skin health that has potential to smooth your skin, reduce wrinkle depth, increase sebum/moisture in as little as 3-4 weeks, changes that can be visible. We do this by ingesting the L. reuteri prebiotic fiber-infused (for higher bacterial counts) high-fat yogurt we have been making.
To join our Challenge, you must agree to:
1) Make the L. reuteri yogurt exactly as described in this Wheat Belly Blog post. Make sure that you start with the BioGaia Gastrus product (available through Amazon and other online retailers) that contains the strains that we know generate these effects, ATCC PTA 6475 and DSM 17938. (In other words, please do not use other commercially-available L. reuteri strains—They may be fine for other purposes, but we do not have evidence that they, like our preferred strains, boost oxytocin levels.) Make consuming 1/2-cup per day part of your daily routine for 4 weeks. (Add blueberries, other berries, a few drops of stevia, etc. to make it even more delicious.)
2) Take selfie photos at the start before you begin consuming the yogurt and after 4 weeks. Even better, take your after selfie holding up a plate of your yogurt—remember, our yogurt, made as directed, is thick enough to stand up on a plate, just as cream cheese would. Post your photos side-by-side on the Wheat Belly Facebook page.
3) Provide permission to use your photos and comments in Wheat Belly and Undoctored social media and other media. (We will need to obtain your email address to obtain your signed release. We can do this privately.)
We will choose 3 or 4 sets of before/after photos. If we choose yours, take your pick of one of the thank you gifts:
An Instant Pot DUO60 like the one here:
Or a gift certificate for $100 to either Whole Foods Market or Wheat-Free Market to buy Grainless Granola, baking mixes, cookies, Virtue Sweetener and other products.
Yogurt makers get started!
“All L. reuteri all the time” is reducing my enjoyment of this blog. Yes, I am fully aware that I could just say nothing and move on, but without feedback no one would know why some people might be losing interest. I accept that others might have different opinions and that is fine. Just sharing mine.
Kali wrote: «“All L. reuteri all the time” is reducing my enjoyment of this blog.»
Then be sure to follow the Undoctored Blog too, which often covers other program developments that aren’t specifically Wheat Belly. For example, the curtain may soon be raised on the topic of Undoctored High Performance.
re: «…but without feedback no one would know why some people might be losing interest.»
Feedback is always welcome. If the spectrum of apparent L.reuteri/oxytocin benefits is even 26.3% correct, it’s a pretty major breakthrough in health optimization — for people in whom it’s not contraindicated, which yes, might include survivors of hormone-sensitive cancers (or might not, but I have not even guesses on that).
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I expected some form of “don’t let the door hit ya,” which is why I tried to state my waning interest as just one opinion for feedback purposes. But OK, if you insist I’ll go ahead and unfollow the Undoctored blog, as well as cancel my new subscription to the Undoctored Inner Circle that I finally shelled out for.
I’m not sure either that L. Reuteri is contraindicated in me or anyone else, and the fact that I am not interested in trying it myself has nothing to do with tiring of the incessant posts about it. There are a lot of things I don’t do exactly as recommended here. It’s the recent lack of variety of topics that led me to remark on it.
Cheers, it’s been fun until now!
Kali wrote: «I expected some form of “don’t let the door hit ya,” … unfollow …»
Where do you see either of those? Did you read what you expected to see, and not what was actually written?
My point about the other blog was that a lot of people following this (WB) aren’t aware of it, and the two blogs aren’t full clones of each other, so anyone seeking some variety of content needs to check both.
re: «…has nothing to do with tiring of the incessant posts about it.»
New developments get a lot of focus, like gut flora did starting in 2014, as well as fish oil, magnesium and Vitamin C when they emerged back on the HeartScan and TYP blogs. L.reut is not the only active development in the program. It’s just the most active at the moment. Others include the Performance topic mentioned earlier, and how to prevent, slow, arrest and possibly reverse cognitive decline. This is not a static program, but what’s in the spotlight is in the spotlight.
The human race has a heck of a lot to learn about microbiome, and not much time to learn it, as we are rapidly losing wild populations to learn from. With any luck, L.reut is just the tip of iceberg.
So change the topic: as a UIC member, you can start pretty much whatever discussions you want on the forum.
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Bob, my apologies! I’m glad I came back to see your response, because you are correct, I did misread what you wrote. I thought you said “be sure to UNfollow the Undoctored Blog too,” and it hurt my feelings because that’s not what I expected from you at all. I figured someone else might tell me to get lost, but not reasonable, unrufflable you. I’m not sure why I saw something that wasn’t there, but sorry for the misunderstanding.
Best regards,
Kali
Well sorry to disappoint but I have another yogurt question. I am using the instant pot and am trying to culture for 24 hours. Sometimes it turns out fine and other times it separates into curds and whey. This is very frustrating when using so much BioGai to get it started. I am confused as to why this happens sometimes and not others? Is anyone else having this problem? I am using whole cows milk and find that when I add cream to it it usually turns out perfectly. I just threw out a huge pot of separated mess in great frustration. Can some tell me how to culture it long enough to get rid of the lactose and multiply the cultures without the separating problem. I thought Instant Pot was the answer. :(
Jo Bosch wrote: «I am using the instant pot …»
I presume that model has a yogurt cycle. Have you checked to see what temperature range it holds during that cycle? Try a short cycle with water only for checking that.
re: «…and am trying to culture for 24 hours.»
Why only 24? The basic recipe here calls for 36, and sometimes as long as 48.
re: «Sometimes it turns out fine and other times it separates into curds and whey.»
What ingredients are you using (other than the Biogaia Gastrus)? Are there any additives in the dairy components, for example? Are you performing a [re]pasteurization cycle, and if so, what temp do you cool to before adding the starter and any prebiotic fiber?
re: «I just threw out a huge pot of separated mess in great frustration.»
Don’t reflexively do that when you don’t get textbook results. Unless you suspect some contamination (and I’ve tossed experimental batches due to that), the whey fraction at least could be poured into ice cube trays, frozen, and saved for future starter (I’m still using cubes from months ago).
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Hi there, Yes my pot has a yogurt cycle. I have checked the temp throughout the culturing and it is between 108 and 110.
I have only been able to culture for about 16 to 20 hours before it separates into curds and whey. I am using 1 quart of whole organic milk and 1 quart of organic half and half. It seems to turn out better when I use half cream. I put in 2 tbsp of inulin and a little bit of grass fed beef gelatin to make it a little more set, as well as 20 Bio Gai crushed tablets. Also I do do the boil first and then cool the milk to 110 before adding the other ingredients. When do I take the starter out? at 12 hours? or before? I made a new batch last night and it has been culturing for 9 hours and looks fabulous. I am afraid to let it keep going as I don’t want to lose it.
Jo Bosch wrote: «…pot has a yogurt cycle. I have checked the temp throughout the culturing and it is between 108 and 110.»
That should work.
re: «I am using 1 quart of whole organic milk and 1 quart of organic half and half. It seems to turn out better when I use half cream.»
When I do it with bovine dairy, I use 1 qt each of whole milk and heavy cream. I haven’t had severe curd/why sep for some time.
re: «…inulin and a little bit of grass fed beef gelatin…»
I’ve been using potato starch in addition to the inulin. Been doing too many other experiments to have an opinion about the collagen.
re: «…as well as 20 Bio Gai crushed tablets.»
Not sure doubling the tabs helps, and that gets expensive. Ideally, we only need tabs for the first batch, and then we can save off starter almost indefinitely.
re: «Also I do do the boil first and then cool the milk to 110 before adding the other ingredients.»
Running a [re]pasteurization cycle first is you call on materials that were presumably already pasteurized. It is essential if using raw dairy, and I do it regardless. But in any case, get the pot to 110°F or less before adding the starter (and before adding the prebiotic fiber, as it’s temperature sensitive too).
re: «When do I take the starter out? at 12 hours?»
I used to pull some at 12 hours.
{Update 2019-02-20: Pulling at 12h is a mistake. I now let it run the full 36h.}
Hi, I am in Australia, and the L-Reuteri i have here is L-Reuteri 1E1. Does anyone know info on this strand? Thanks
Cathy Wood wrote: «…Australia, and the L-Reuteri i have here is L-Reuteri 1E1»
What product is that provided in? And that is a Lactobacillus reuteri, and not a Lactobacillus brevis?
Just in consideration of the ATCC and DSM accession numbers for the two strains in Biogaia® Gastrus®, there are likely thousands of strains of Lactobacillus reuteri, with wildly varying effects (some null, some possibly pathogenic, although if what you’re looking at is in a food or supplement, food safety has presumably already been settled).
The present focus here is on Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA 6475, and DSM 17938, which for the effects of interest, appear to be the most thoroughly studied.
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I wonder if I bought Gastrus from Amazon, and they shipped it from their warehouse in CA through the desert to their warehouse in Phoenix, when temperatures are in the 110’s, would the product still be viable for this use?
John Es wrote: «…and they shipped it from their warehouse in CA through the desert to their warehouse in Phoenix, when temperatures are in the 110’s, would the product still be viable for this use?»
I think so. For further context, Biogaia says to store this product “not above 25°C / 77°F”. They have an FAQ page that also says:
“What if BioGaia Protectis drops is exposed to temperatures of 30°C and above?
Exposure to high temperature for too long will accelerate the degradation of the probiotic bacteria.
• Hot weather together with high moisture, activates the bacteria cell and that will start the degrading of viability of the probiotic. ?
• When exposed to high temperature and/or high moisture, probiotics will not die right away but gradually and that will result in a shorter shelf-life.?
• In countries with a warm climate, cool boxes are used for delivery to pharmacies that are air-conditioned.”
In the labelled use of the product (youth probiotic), I’m not seeing any web traffic complaining about seasonal variations in efficacy. And unlike some other probiotics (e.g. VSL#3), no one in the U.S. seems to ship it in ice packs.
But do refrigerate it on arrival.
It’s a reasonable concern, and one of a couple of reasons why I decided to stock up last winter, so I wouldn’t need to order any during the summer.
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Would the Life Extension variety Lactobacillus reuteri 30242 work? It’s touted for cardiovascular health and comes in a capsule.
LE Certified Non-GMO
FLORASSIST® Heart Health Probiotic contains a novel probiotic — Lactobacillus reuteri 30242 — that has been shown in clinical trials to safely support healthy cholesterol in adults already within the normal range. Additionally, L. reuteri 30242 has been shown to support healthy C-reactive protein (a marker for inflammation), fibrinogen (involved in clot formation), apoB-100 (a marker for LDL particle number, a known cardiovascular risk factor), and vitamin D levels (important for cardiovascular health) for those within normal range
Susan wrote: «Would the Life Extension variety Lactobacillus reuteri 30242 work?»
For the purposes of the Challenge, sorry, no.
And by the way, as far as I know, the Biogaia® Gastrus® tablet product is the only way, at retail, to obtain the strains being explored here.
I wouldn’t even have a wild guess at the results of trying to make a yogurt with Lactobacillus reuteri NCIMB 30242.
Might 30242 be beneficial? Sure, but the spectrum of benefits (and CFUs required) for it might be completely different than what we are exploring for the ATCC PTA 6475 and DSM 17938 strains. I had further remarks in an earlier reply here.
re: «…apoB-100…»
Hmmm. I wonder if it has specific (all cause, outcome) benefit in people who express Lp(a), especially elevated Lp(a).
We are sort of in the Medieval period of microbiome science. There is a huge amount to be learned, and some of the microbial life forms we need to learn about don’t even have names yet. NCIMB 30242 could be a big player, but it would just be a confounder in the present effort to catalog the benefits of ATCC PTA 6475 and DSM 17938.
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Does anybody know if adding honey or sugar to yogurt (along with the starter bacteria pack) would increase the bacteria count much more? Would there be any trace of sugar or honey left? Surely these bugs reach a point where they stop multiplying in the ferment, despite having ample feed. I’m following SCD right now and I strictly can’t have inulin, sugar or starches. Honey’s fine so I’m almost tempted to use that
DLM wrote: «Does anybody know if adding honey or sugar to yogurt (along with the starter bacteria pack) would increase the bacteria count much more?»
Honey is only safe to use as substrate in this yogurt if it’s completely fake honey (and then it might be unsafe for reasons other than microbes).
Natural wild-honey is bee spit, and they don’t brush their teeth. The trace microbes (not all bacteria), even if they make a tasty yogurt that’s still mostly L.reut, would further raise questions about saving off starter.
re: «Would there be any trace of sugar or honey left?»
With an ample run time, all of the simple carbs would be expected to be gone, along with most of the complex (resistant) carbs.
re: «…I strictly can’t have inulin, sugar or starches. Honey’s fine…»
To me, that doesn’t really compute. Whether real or fake, organic or contaminated Asian import, it’s most mono- and disaccharides — sugars. I have added actual powdered sugar to one experimental batch, but I wouldn’t use any kind of honey.
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Or maybe I can since all the inulin will be eaten up by the bacteria. So honey’s bad because of the microbes from the bees your saying; it may end up multiplying some non-resident gut microbes?
I have made this yogurt about 1.5 months ago. Whenever there is about 1/4 cup left, I make more using that as a starter for the new batch. So far, so good. Is there a time when I should use 10 of the pills into the starter? or keep using the left over yogurt?
Mohammad Darab wrote: «Is there a time when I should use 10 of the pills into the starter?»
That cannot be said with any certainty yet, and would also depend on some local variables in your environment.
Dr. Davis reported recently (in a subscription forum reply) that he’s on generational batch #20 without adding more tablets.
My personal policy was to add one crushed tablet every 5th generational batch, but…
One early batch produced a lot of whey, so I froze that fraction in ice cube trays, and have been using two slowly thawed cubes exclusively as a starter for all recent batches. It’s going to be some time before I need to consider using more tablets.
Using batch-to-batch generations; if obvious contamination appears, or the physiologic effects diminish, or the yogurt loses its distinct aroma, flavor and tang, then it would be necessary to start over.
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Where can i ask for some help interpreting my lab results? I have all the numbers and referance ranges and according to a dictor most are fine, but i’d rather have some feedback from low carbers…
AleksandraLM wrote: «Where can i ask for some help interpreting my lab results?»
In the context of the Wheat Belly / Undoctored program, the most effective place to ask is in the forum on the subscription site (UIC). This has the advantages of:
• privacy (or not – your choice)
• you can start topics
• threads remain open indefinitely
• you can edit basenotes and responses
• participants with varied experience
• search finds user content (which it doesn’t here)
• there may be members-only content for your specific issue(s)
• legacy marker tracking tool (the Cureality Dashboard)
re: «…according to a dictor most are fine…»
It probably won’t surprise you that characterizations such as “fine”, “normal”, “OK” are highly suspect (unless you have a state-of-the-art concierge functional medicine physician, which you probably don’t).
re: «…but i’d rather have some feedback from low carbers…»
Be aware that the WB/Undoctored program is vastly more than just low [net] carb. The first thing we usually discuss with a new UIC member is what diet and lifestyle program they’ve been on, and for how long.
You are welcome to ask here, but detailed responses are apt to be limited. While you decide what next steps to take, you are also welcome to consider a summary I put together on suggested program labs.
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I know that fine for thevrwg docs may not mean fine for low carb docs and vice versa, that’a why I’m asking.
I saw quite a few posting their labs here. I don’t currently have a subscription on undoctotwd forum. I’ve been following a mix of keto/paleo/wgearbelly for 3 years now. Though i haven’t really exactly followed all 5he protocols of the wheat belly. I just try to stick to.no.wheat and grains, low carb of no more than 15 net g per meal ( which is usually twice a day, not hungry for more)…
I read the original Wheat Belly, then the Wheat Belly Total.Health and Undoctored, plus a few others from dr Perlmutter, dr Lustig, dr Kendrick or dr Fung.
AleksandraLM wrote: «I know that fine for thevrwg docs may not mean fine for low carb docs and vice versa»
And that’s why I posted the link to the program marker brackets.
re: «…that’a why I’m asking.»
Then feel free to post the details. Keep in mind that you might get only my non-professional insights.
re: «I read…»
Sounds like you’re very well informed, although, as you’ve probably noticed, not all of those august figures necessarily agree with each other about everything.
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Yes, I did But I just perceive those differences as different facets of the same problem.
Ok, here are the numbers:
B12 216.0 pmol/L (293.68 pg/mL) the range being 250-569…
I already bought the supplement that includes folic acid too as the folate is somewhat on the low side either, though within the range 12.6 nmol/L (8,83-60.8)
Ferritin – 131 ug/L – the range 13-150
Vitamin D 45.1 nmol/L – their range 50-200 (18.1 ng/ml) – abysmally low, bought the gel caps too. Should I take 4000 IU or go for 8000?
HbA1c – 32,35 mmol/mol – that’s ightly above 5%. I suppose low vit D has its finger there. Some potato indiscretions as well. I’d rather have it between 4,5-5%
The doc that provided some analyses complained a bit about my total cholesterol – and here obviously, I don’t give a flying f…
Total ch – 198 mg/dL
LDL 108,49
Non HDL chol 125.87
Triglycerides – 88,49
HDL – 72.20
the ration 2.74
I don’ t have a clue what my liver work represents apart from the fact that the doc mentioned above says it’s ok, considering my wine intake (yess, I like my wine, and if you ask how much… well… there’s this buzz feed video about women who love wine, one of them gets asked by a nurse about how many alcoholic drinks shee has a week… One… bottle… per… day… ;) trying to cut down a bit, but if you work in apub in th UK it’s not so easy)
Gamma GT 14.0 IU/L (6-42)
Globulin 28.5g/L (19-35)
Alkaline Phosphase 47.0 IU/L (0-104)
Alanine Transferase 23.6 IU/L (0-35)
Albumin 40.7g/L (34-50)
Bilirubin 9.0umol/L (0-24)
Total Protein 69.2 g/L (63-83)
Thyroid panel – here I looked for info into dr Davis’s books, but th only thing that I can make out is that THS could be a bit lower.
THS – 2,54 mIU/L (0.27-4.3)
FT4 16.9 pmol/L (12-23)
Anti Thyroidperoxidase antibodies 9.0 kIU/L (0-34)
FT3 – 4.6 pmol/L (3.1-6.8)
Thyroxine (T4) 69.9 nmol/L (66-181)
Anti Thyroglobulin antibodies 10.0 kU/L (0-115)
aleksandralm wrote: «Ok, here are the numbers»
I’ll just comment on those with which I have some familiarity.
re: «B12 216.0 pmol/L (293.68 pg/mL) the range being 250-569…
I already bought the supplement that includes folic acid…»
The B vitamin levels aren’t markers of focus for the program, other than for people on vegetarian diets, where they are often deficient.
I can say that taking folic acid (and the cyanocobalamin form of B12) amounts to taking a chance, unless you’ve had your MTHFR status evaluated. The methyl forms of B9 and B12 are a safer choice (and, unsurprisingly, not found in the cheaper supplements).
What is that supplement, by the way?
re: «Vitamin D 45.1 nmol/L – their range 50-200 (18.1 ng/ml) – abysmally low, bought the gel caps too. Should I take 4000 IU or go for 8000?»
The program range in mmol/L is 150-180, implying that you level needs to come up by (165-45)=120. The general rule of thumb on Vitamin D dose adjustment appears to be 100 IU per ng/mL shift desired, which I think is 40 IU per mmol/L. If there are no errors here, 120×40 would be 4800 IU.
What gelcap product is that (where I’m principally concerned about the type of oil)?
re: «HbA1c – 32,35 mmol/mol – that’s ightly above 5%.»
5.1%, if the converter I used is reliable. That’s nicely close to the upper end of our target range (4.0-5.0). If you’ve been losing weight or making significant diet changes, A1c won’t be fully accurate, because it’s a time-weighted 90-day moving average.
re: «…Triglycerides – 88,49
HDL – 72.20…»
If those are also mg/dL and accurately converted, the HDL is great. The TG is elevated (program target 60), and also a bit discordant with that nice A1c. Some fasting BGs and start+30/60-minute postprandial BGs might provide some insight.
re: «…I like my wine…»
1 or 2 glasses of organic dry red per day might actually be ideal, in terms of all-cause mortality. More than that might explain the elevated TG. Also, if a course ketosis is ever an objective, it’s pretty clear that almost any alcohol consumption will kick you out.
re: «THS – 2,54 mIU/L (0.27-4.3)
T4 16.9 pmol/L (12-23)
FT3 – 4.6 pmol/L (3.1-6.8)»
Program upper bound on TSH is 1.5, and fT3/fT4 in the upper half of the RRs. So your elevated TSH and slightly depressed fT3 and fT4 readings are suggestive of mild hypothyroid — of the sort that often responds to mere iodine restoration in the diet. And your low antibody results would appear to give you a free hand in making sure that you’re getting 500-1000µg iodine per day.
Ideally, you can avoid trying to get competent thyroid treatment from the lethal NHS.
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Thank you.
I bought all the supplements from Holland and Barret
Vit D -their own brand, gel caps, 100 of 400 IU caos. Stronger ones were not available These will have to suffice fir starters.
Will probably have to look online.
Got vitamin b-complex, says m3ga on the label. 100 capsules. Also Holland and Barret brand.
And also their omega 3 caosules – 950 ng of active EPA/DHA in each.
I think i have iodine /kelp tablets somewhere. Gotta find them. Also Holland and Barret.
I used edmemo.com for conversions. Also for lipids
The tests were done by Thriva.co.uk. I can’t complain here. And they suggest retesting at the beginning of September… Shoukd ingo for it then ir qait a month longer?
I”m not really trying to lose weight apart from some stubborn 4-5 kg but wine is the main culprit here (prolly also the reason why my triglycerides are elevated). And i don’t 5hink I’ll ever be in ketosis because of this as well.
Sorry for typos. Mobile phones suck.
AleksandraLM wrote: «I bought all the supplements from Holland and Barret»
Holland & Barrett Retail Limited, I presume.
re: «Vit D -their own brand, gel caps, 100 of 400 IU caps.»
Ingredients:
Bulking Agents (Microcrystalline Cellulose, Dicalcium Phosphate), Anti-Caking Agents (Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide), Emulsifier (Acacia Gum), Sucrose, Starch, Vitamin E (as dl-Alpha Tocopherol), Tricalcium Phosphate, Vitamin D3.
Not happy with the calciums, sucrose and {unspecified} starch. Would rather see a product bulked with fish oil, MCT oil or olive oil (if credible olive oil).
re: «Stronger ones were not available»
Doses may be constrained by the Codex Alimentarius, and I’m not sure that Brexit will free you of that dogma.
re: «Got vitamin b-complex, says m3ga on the label.»
The B12 is Cyanocobalamin, sigh. Also not thrilled with the calcium (again) and brewer’s yeast (wheat/gluten).
re: «And also their omega 3 capsules – 950 ng of active EPA/DHA in each.»
I assume mg was meant, and they aren’t the cod liver oil variants. 3 or 4 of those a day would hit program targets, plus or minus how much seafood you eat.
re: «I think i have iodine /kelp tablets somewhere. Gotta find them.»
Looks like it’s mostly calcium again, and provides only RDA (150µg) per cap.
Not being familiar with UK and Euro offerings, I haven’t any immediate alternative brands to suggest.
re: «And they suggest retesting at the beginning of September…»
That would be fine for checking thyroid against restoration of iodine. What other tests did you have in mind? If you want to clear cardiovascular risk off the table, getting a CT or EBT calcium scan (Agatston score) and Lipoprotein(a) might be reassuring. If your weight has been stable leading up to the labs, getting an advanced lipoprotein panel (LDL-P values), would be worthwhile.
Another core supplement in the program, not so far discussed here, is magnesium, for which the RBC Mg test is recommended. Attention to gut flora is also core, but there are no dispositive tests for status yet.
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8 suppise i should go into the fb group and ask there for reluable brands acailabke in 4he uk.
Too bad all these ongrediwnts are orinted in such small font. I can’t read 5hem even with my glasses on.
What do you 5hink of 5his peoduct and others available in this e-shop? https://uk.iherb.com/pr/Healthy-Origins-Vitamin-D3-5-000-IU-540-Softgels/55823
AleksandraLM wrote: «8 suppise i should go into the fb group and ask there for reluable brands acailabke in 4he uk.»
That might work. Just looking at iHerb/UK and Amazon/UK, they do seem to carry many of the same brands we have here in the US, although only one of the two brands from which I personally get D3 (LifeExtension Two-Per-Day multi they have; MembersMark fish oil+D they don’t).
re: «Too bad all these ongrediwnts are orinted in such small font. I can’t read 5hem even with my glasses on.»
I don’t buy a product unless I can see, on-line, all views of the label (or equivalent declarations on the page), and legibly.
re: «What do you 5hink of 5his peoduct and others available in this e-shop?»
That looks OK on paper, and that brand has scored well in ConsumerLab testing on this side of the pond.
By the way, here’s a supplement summary I put together during a review, 2 years ago, of what my family uses (and doesn’t use).
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Read the first wheat belly book two weeks ago. very interesting. cut out all things wheat (not corn, rice,etc). lost 8 lbs in 8 days. also my skin cleared up. i had previously stopped drinking milk which helped the skin but didn’t knock it all out. i was eating at least one sandwich a day with whole wheat bread, bread with dinner etc. hoping to get off statin.
i stopped taking it for now and plan to have blood work after 6-weeks of wheat free living. Anyway just found the blog. curious about results from the supwr yogart. anyone seeing good responses? ser alot of dialog about majing yogart but not much about wherher it works or not. for me i may try to make regular yogart first since i have never done that, then move to the super yogart.
Chris wrote: «Read the first wheat belly book two weeks ago.»
Be aware that the program has evolved since 2011, with the latest comprehensive discussion in the Undoctored book (2017), which has it’s own blog, with substantial overlap. I’ll note some of the newer information in my comments here.
re: «…cut out all things wheat (not corn, rice,etc).»
The program has strongly shifted from gluten-bearing-grain-free (wheat, rye, barley) to flat out grain free. Corn and rice are high glycemic. The 2011 book didn’t prominently feature the advice to consume 50 grams or less net carbs per day, and 15g net per meal or 6-hour window. Even with a relatively benign grain like quinoa, this allows for only condiment portion sizes.
Corn contains a gliadin analog (zein). Rice contains, oddly enough, the toxic lectin wheat germ agglutinin. Both are at high risk of uptake of field toxins; a long list for corn, and arsenic for rice. Bt GMO corn, of course, is a pesticide, and no friend to your microbiome. Gut flora is a topic that came into the program in 2014.
re: «…lost 8 lbs in 8 days. also my skin cleared up.»
Yep, just eliminating wheat can have powerful effects. More benefits are to be had.
re: «i had previously stopped drinking milk which helped the skin but didn’t knock it all out.»
Once on the full program for some time, oddball food allergies often vanish (with correction of the dysbiosis that is usually the root enabler). There are several separate considerations with dairy (and making yogurt with it can mitigate 2 or 3 of them).
re: «…hoping to get off statin.»
Then my personal posture on statins won’t surprise you.
re: «…and plan to have blood work after 6-weeks of wheat free living.»
For a clear picture on cardio status, may I suggest:
• CAC scan (CT or EBT arterial calcium scan, providing an Agatston score)
• Advanced lipoprotein (not lipid) panel, providing actual LDL-P measures
• Lipoprotein(a) test (a familial risk factor)
• ApoE genetic test (or just check rs429358 & rs7412 in your 23andMe raw data)
• full thyroid status: fT3, fT4, rT3, TPOab, TGab, TSH
• here’s a long list of labs and targets.
If weight loss is still on-going, expect the lipoproteins (and lipids, which you’ll probably get anyway), fT3, and any BG measures to be distorted. Ideally, weight needs to have stablized about 30 days prior to the draw.
re: «…curious about results from the supwr yogart.»
That’s part of why this Challenge was initiated. Mostly what we have is scattered anecdotes on the blogs and on the subscription forum, and most of those involve effects that don’t appear to be mere placebo (esp. the unexpected effects).
re: «…i may try to make regular yogart first since i have never done that, then move to the super yogart.»
Run a plain water yogurt cycle with your equipment, checking temperature, so you’re familiar with the process and the equipment behavior. Doing a standard yogurt is fine, but usually takes a much shorter time than the BGY (Biogaia® Gastrus® yogurt) we are making. Don’t try making a coconut BGY in your first few batches.
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Bob,
Thank you for the detailed response. I think it’s time to start educating myself. I saw you comment about the “undoctored” method or diet in other threads and I thought you meant no-wheat (not cheating, i.e. undoctored). I didn’t even know about the other book! I will order it though. I just found it on Amazon.
As far as statins, I had no noticeable side effects while on it. I will say though that I’ve been having mild chest pains since I stopped taking it. I’m 42, 5’11” and now 175lbs after weight loss. I had a small belly (very small actually) that’s basically gone now. So I was never really overweight and grew up as a skinny fast kid. Still active and work out and have two little boys that keep me and my wife busy with sports.
When I was 30 years old, my total cholesterol was 230…that’s all I remember. Several members of my family have had cholesterol issues and clogged arteries. My older brother is a vegetarian and also has high cholesterol (although that doesn’t shock my anmore after reading wheat belly).
On the statin my total cholesterol is under 180 (again I’ve never paid attention to anything else due to ignorance). I have run out of the statin prescription before and without fail I experience mild chest pains. So I don’t know what that’s about. Since the wheat deletion, I barely have heart burn, but have noticed the subtle chest pains on my left side again. I always want to believe it’s a strained muscle :) but I never seem to get this problem on my right side.
Chris wrote: «I saw you comment about the “undoctored” method or diet in other threads and I thought you meant no-wheat (not cheating, i.e. undoctored).»
A lot of people make incorrect assumptions about that provocative title. My take on it is that 80% of modern sickcare is focused on what I call optional ailments — things we can simply make go away by addressing root causes in diet and lifestyle. If you have an Un-aliment, you only need an Un-doctor for it.
re: «As far as statins, I had no noticeable side effects while on it. I will say though that I’ve been having mild chest pains since I stopped taking it.»
Getting an insightful assessment of cardiac status would seem pretty important with that presentation. Here’s a blog post perhaps of interest: How To Get Off Statins
re: «Several members of my family have had cholesterol issues and clogged arteries.»
Checking Lp(a), ApoE, and any other Familial Hypercholesterolemia markers would be worthwhile. The program has an additional strategy for Lp(a), which is beyond the book.
re: «My older brother is a vegetarian and also has high cholesterol…»
Vegetarian, per se, assures nothing about heart disease. In addition to higher risk for various deficiencies, vegetarian tends also to be high carb and low healthy fat, so cardiovascular issues wouldn’t be surprising. I have a page on how to do this program as vegetarian, or even vegan, for those who insist.
re: «n the statin my total cholesterol is under 180…»
Statins do shove around TC and the fictional LDL-C. We’re more interested in TG, HDL, and actually-measured LDL-P subfractions, and more than that, actual outcomes and not just markers.
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I just ordered the probiotic in the Amazon link. It’s not prime so it won’t be delivered until the 18th. Ive never made yogurt, but I’m going to as soon as my supplement gets here. I already do low carb and take collagen, so maybe this will be amazing, too. At 50 I’ll try it all?
Toni wrote: «Ive never made yogurt,…»
I would suggest running a water-only cycle on your equipment, for at least a couple of hours, and checking temperature, so that you’re comfortable with the process and know how well the equipment holds 95-115°F (35-46°C).
re: «I already do low carb and take collagen, so maybe this will be amazing, too.»
Although the article doesn’t say so, Dr. Davis might be expecting that participants are following the 2014 or later Wheat Belly program, or the Undoctored program, which is a lot more than simply low carb (collagen is optional, but not core).
Anyone (probably not you) who is still consuming gluten bearing grains, for example, might see benefits to this yogurt, but these might not extend to dramatic skin improvements.
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Bob, you mentioned that people have reported unexpected effects of consuming the Gastrus yogurt (presumably beyond those originally mentioned by Dr Davis). What would those effects be? Certainly if you were unaware of a particular effect, you can hardly be imagining it.
Too often doctors use this supposed placebo effect to avoid acknowledging inconvenient facts that challenge their prejudices, including their prejudice that all patients are stupid. I see that the statinators are now claiming that patient reports of side effects of taking statins are just placebo effects. On that basis they can ignore all reports of statin side effects! Or it’s just “anecdotal”, ignoring that the plural of “anecdote” is “data”.
One example that really riles me is all the “experts” (doctors, dietitians, etc) who appear in the media announcing that Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity (NCGS) doesn’t exist and any non-celiac claiming reaction to gluten must be imagining it. After numerous tests and 2 colonoscopies by 2 different GI docs, my GP finally tested for Anti-gliadin antibodies. He told me that while not as high as a celiac, it was 3 times normal. After cutting out gluten-containing foods (although still eating rice and corn crackers) my GI issues magically disappeared and I steadily lost weight, amounting to 20 kilos/45lb over 12 months. I also discovered from my gluten reactions how pervasive wheat is in foods, even those you wouldn’t suspect. Here in Australia we don’t have HFCS, instead we have “glucose from wheat”. I discovered this when my GI issues returned and I started scratching my forearms in an allergic reaction after eating ice cream. So tell me again Doc, how is it I’m having an imaginary reaction to an ingredient I didn’t know was there?
Stuart wrote: «…unexpected effects of consuming the Gastrus yogurt … What would those effects be?»
My hair is a lot more oily, noticed only because the usual amount of shampoo was having nil effect, and had to be tripled. Sebaceous gland effects appear in the rodent trials, but it’s not something that was on my radar. A female UIC member reported (in a video meet) becoming weepy for no apparent reason, and that the effect can be turned on and off. A male member reported improved performance with his male member.
re: «Too often doctors use this supposed placebo effect to avoid acknowledging inconvenient facts that challenge their prejudices,…»
That, or call them “paradoxes” — “it’s not a black swan for my dogma, it’s just a paradox”. Considering the paucity of adult human trials on these L.reut strains, and the broad spectrum of possible effects, there certainly is opportunity for placebo effects. Evidence-based challenges are one way to informally minimize that.
re: «…we don’t have HFCS, instead we have “glucose from wheat”.»
By the time wheat-sourced amylopectin A is reduced to crystals of glucose, I would expect risks from grain proteins, mutant genetics and field/storage toxins to be nil. Your reaction may have been to stealth proteins from elsewhere, perhaps flow agent in the sugar, but possibly from some other source still at large.
re: «I should mention that despite consulting 2 different GI specialists several years apart, neither of them mentioned that gluten might be a cause of my GI symptoms. »
Given the current state of knowledge about microbiome, people need to assume that gastros and endos are basically practicing 17th century medicine (prior to germ theory). People have to be their own case managers for a number of ailment classes today. Find the most enlightened practitioner you can. Use these gatekeepers for the tests and treatments they hold hostage. Make your own decisions. Don’t try to re-educate the brainwashed. It’s not our job.
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I should mention that despite consulting 2 different GI specialists several years apart, neither of them mentioned that gluten might be a cause of my GI symptoms. Yet both of them were quite happy to conduct an invasive procedure that’s not as safe as they led me to believe. The instruments are almost impossible to sterilise leading to cross-infection between patients and bowel perforations occur frequently which in extreme cases can lead to total loss of intestines, a death sentence. However, no doubt it’s a “nice little earner” for the GI docs, to quote the dodgy businessman Arthur Daley in the British comedy Minder.
Before having a colonoscopy procedure read this post on the dangers
http://roarofwolverine.com/archives/2772
by a man who lost his intestines due to a botched and unnecessary colonoscopy and is only alive today because of a rare bowel transplant. He also states that while in hospital he was told by the nurses that the No 1 reason patients require transplant is failed bariatric surgery. Bet their bariatric surgeons never warned them about that!
Wolverine’s blog is well worth reading, particularly the bit about how it’s virtually impossible in the US to sue an incompetent doctor for any serious injury they caused to you.
For those unfamiliar with Arthur Daley watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01dXHywMMyE
The series to watch is the 1979-1994 one with George Cole as Arthur and Dennis Waterman as Terry, not the 2009 remake.
Apologies about the multiple copies but my iPad has a nasty habit of reloading the page when I switch tabs, deleting all the text I’ve laboriously typed in the comment box. Grrrr!
Multiple posts not multiple copies.
I read on Amazon reviews that the BioGaia Gastrus probiotics are orange or tangerine flavored, with mint as well. Do these added flavors show up in the yoghurt made with this probiotic? Are there any other brands with this combination of strains that are unflavored?
Susan wrote: «…the BioGaia Gastrus probiotics are orange or tangerine flavored, with mint as well. Do these added flavors show up in the yoghurt made with this probiotic?»
The flavors don’t show up, nor do they interfere with the fermentation.
re: «Are there any other brands with this combination of strains…»
No, and it’s not clear that there will be in the next 10 years or so, due to patents. If Biogaia wants to explicitly get into the culture business, or license someone who does, it could happen. In the meantime, it’s to some extent an accident that these tablets make a great yogurt.
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Anyone like to advise me ? I am using the correct pro biotic, used Glucomannan for the fiber along with a spoonful of sugar and made the yogurt in a thermos flask . It turned out fine; nice and thick but with a grainy appearance, which may be down to the Glucomannan.I used a cup of the first one to start the next batch…this is where things have gone really strange….The yogurt is turning out the way some peoples first batch turned out…after 36 hours it is very watery with curds, stinks, and if full of Gas, nearly erupts when I open the Thermos. I check the temperature every 12 hrs or so and if it is cooling too much I heat it a little, I have also crushed, dissolved and added another BG tablet. Should I keep some of this to start a new batch ? I am going to see if I can buy inulin or potato starch Locally.
Marie B wrote: «… used Glucomannan … things have gone really strange…»
You may be the first person to try that. Glucomannan is a polymer of D-mannose and D-glucose in a ratio of 1.6:1, according to Wiki, and another source reports that mannose is not a preferred substrate for L.reuteri ATCC PTA 6475 (but then, that’s also true for the fructans in inulin). Nonetheless, the bacteria would be expected to just ignore the konjac and consume the sugar.
re: «Should I keep some of this to start a new batch ?»
I wouldn’t, and I’ve tossed experimental batches when they don’t turn out as expected. I’m inclined in your case to not blame the Glucomannan. I suspect some other factor. What was the dairy substrate used? Did you [re]pasteurize? Was the dairy re-cooled to 110°F before adding the crushed tablets? What equipment was used? What temperature range was held (esp. at the high end)?
re: «I am going to see if I can buy inulin or potato starch Locally.»
Bob’s Red Mill Unmodified Potato Starch is pretty widely available, and what I use. Dr. Davis has reported batch success using it and no inulin.
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Going to start a new batch today it’s potato starch. I started thinking about equipment .. I put full fat milk into a stainless steel pot and warmed it to 110 I used a regular ( health ) thermometer to check temp.. I had crushed the tablets and mixed them with the glucomannan into a paste with some of the warm milk , then added this to the warm milk in the pot and put it into a thermos. Every 12 hours I re heated the milk in the pot to bring the temperature back up. It was very “ carbonated” !! Going to try making it in a glass container in a show cooker or borrow a rice cooker before I buy a yogurt maker .
I suppose the failed mix, which smells strongly of sour milk , is 4 days old and looks Gross should be chucked out !
On another thread Bob Niland wrote in reply to an earlier post of mine:
<>
I’ve seen this commented elsewhere about probiotics in general, that they usually don’t colonise the gut, even when they are given in the usual doses of 1-2 billion CFUs per strain per capsule rather than the Gastrus’ paltry 100 million. Yet AFAIK all of the probiotic strains offered commercially were originally isolated from the human gut, and ISTR that the reuteri strain in Gastrus was originally found in a mother’s breast milk. Also each of us was born with a sterile gut and acquired all our gut bacteria from the external environment. (Is this why babies put everything in their mouths?) the composition of an individual’s micro biome has been shown to change at each stage of their lifespan from infancy to old age. Also fecal transplants have been shown to dramatically change people’s gut micro biome and cure intractable gut dysbiosis. So clearly new bacteria CAN establish themselves if the conditions are right.
I think the answer here is that in the baby’s gut the initial microbes are entering virgin territory and can proliferate without much competition. In the older child or adult there are already established populations in the trillions upon trillions and it is much harder for the relatively small doses in commercial probiotics to establish a foothold. One solution may be to culture the contents of those probiotic capsules just as Dr Davis does with the reuteri (but separately of course).
Another complementary practice would be to consume a variety of fermented foods in addition to your probiotic yogurts – kefir, kombucha, various kinds of fermented vegetables, aged cheeses etc. Most of the commercial probiotics only seem to contain a handful of species and only one strain of each, possibly the same species/strains in all the brands – how many cultivate their own vs buy it in? Analysis of individual micro biomes has revealed thousands of different species within the one individual as well as different species in different individuals within the same population, so as much diversity as possible would be desirable, which you won’t get from commercial probiotics alone.
I also think that it might help to reduce the competition by fasting for a couple of weeks to reduce the bacterial population, then break the fast with several kinds of mega-dose probiotic foods. Hopefully by doing that and keeping it up the good bacteria can get a head start.
Stuart wrote: «…wrote in reply to an earlier post of mine:»
…and whatever you wanted to quote vanished. That’s due to the peculiar way that WordPress deals with what it thinks is HTML markup. Use regular ‘single’ or “double” quote, or «double angle quotes» as I do.
re: «…and ISTR that the reuteri strain in Gastrus was originally found in a mother’s breast milk.»
Yep, in Peru. From that, and the apparent short half-life in the gut, I presume that there is some natural reservoir of it outside the human body.
re: «Analysis of individual micro biomes has revealed thousands of different species within the one individual as well as different species in different individuals within the same population, so as much diversity as possible would be desirable, which you won’t get from commercial probiotics alone.»
There is clearly a lot to be learned. This overview article touches on the known, the suspected and the unknown.
re: «I also think that it might help to reduce the competition by fasting for a couple of weeks to reduce the bacterial population, then break the fast with several kinds of mega-dose probiotic foods.»
Antibiotic courses also do that (whether it’s an intended outcome or not). I don’t recall seeing fasting proposed before, and it might be worth a try when nothing else works, or even prior to an AB course (esp. rifaximin). One challenge with both of those approaches is that some of the adverse species can apparently sporulate, or enter a hibernating spore phase in the mucosal lining. Consuming foods with emulsifying properties, or even actual emulsifiers (like guar) might be useful. Expect the insight to evolve.
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I was quoting your comment in the other now-closed thread about the half-life of reuteri, in order to provide some context for what I was about to say. I was using the single angle quotes to distinguish your words from mine, didn’t realise they were a software syntax thing. At least I’ll know better in future.
Re reducing the bacterial population, I recall reading that the bacteria mix can change radically in a matter of days in response to dietary changes and that fasting as you’d expect reduces bacteria that feed on our food while leaving those that feed on the mucosal layer unaffected. However, good point about the spore formation and using emulsifiers to target them.
Some further thoughts about the reuteri bacteria:
. Given the mathematics of bacterial reproduction and the ease with which we amateurs can culture billions of the bacteria with nothing more than kitchen utensils, there is no excuse for providing a paltry 100 million CFUs per Gastrus tablet. Most probiotics have 3-5 billion CFUs of various bacteria and this is barely sufficient. I may be overly cynical but ISTM that BioGaia are deliberately providing low doses of reuteri precisely so that the bacteria does not colonise your gut and you remain dependent on buying their product. Very short-sighted IMHO since these low doses are reported not to have any of the promised benefits and the sales may dwindle as customers discover that. If BioGaia abandon the product that may leave us without a source for that strain.
Further on the discussion about whether or not to mix the Gastrus tablets with your normal yogurt-producing bacteria, I notice that people are fermenting for 36-48 hours whereas normally yogurt can be made overnight. Since time is money for a commercial operation, I suspect that the commercial operators are deliberately selecting their bacteria strains for fast reproduction and that in a 1:1 situation the commercial bacteria would rapidly outnumber the reuteri, and that would apply whether your starter was a spoonful of yogurt from the supermarket dairy case or one of those dry mixes sold for home yogurt makers. But of course it’s not 1:1, your reuteri bacteria would be outnumbered from the start. Yet another reason not to mix reuteri with other lactobacillus strains I think.
A correction to what I wrote from memory above – I wrote that most commercial probiotics contain 3-5 billion CFUs, however my memory was faulty. I just checked with one of the better products I can buy locally, Life Space probiotic, and it contains 32 billion CFUs of which 200 million are l reuteri. I can buy 60 capsules of this for $AU22, a price inclusive of 10% sales tax. So at current exchange rates of ~$AU1=$US0.70, it comes to roughly $US14 for 60 caps. Compare this with 30 Gastrus tablets for $US25.61 on Amazon. Not only is the Life Space product significantly cheaper but you get 4 times the reuteri (60x200million vs 30x100million) and 60×31.8 billion = 1,908 billion CFUs of other beneficial probiotic bacteria for free.
Now I am not suggesting that the Life Space product is a substitute for Gastrus as it is very unlikely to contain the specific strain we want. However, it does illustrate how absurdly over-priced and under-dosed the BioGaia product is.
Here’s a link to the Life Space product
https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/76272/Life-Space-Broad-Spectrum-Probiotic-60-Capsules
The second thumbnail shows a pic of the table giving the contents of each capsule, species and CFU counts.
Stuart wrote: «I was quoting your comment in the other now-closed thread about the half-life of reuteri…»
That was my guess (and thanks to WordPress, I had to guess).
re: «…there is no excuse for providing a paltry 100 million CFUs per Gastrus tablet.»
A couple of considerations on that:
1. target market
2. business realities
The BG product is for very young children, and the dose was probably selected for tangible benefit, in the indicated ailments, in the smallest client. The dose also has to encourage compliance in the target client. It was never going to be an adult dose for off-label benefits.
There was doubtless significant investment in developing the strain, safety-testing it in adults, then benefit-testing it in children. That R&D has to be recovered. Furthermore, any business with a consumable product is going to be biased toward encouraging repeat sales. A stronger dose, needed less often (esp., only once), might not pay for it itself.
We’re lucky this product made it to market, and it’s just an accident that it suits our purpose (and doesn’t contain amendments that screw up the reaction). We could debate the patent ploy (I’m no fan of patents generally, but patenting either naturally-existing lifeforms, or anything that self-replicates, is an abuse of the system — and ATCC PTA 6475 is both).
From an economy standpoint, there’s no theoretical need to buy more than one box of BG to make yogurt pretty much forever (well, until the patent expires in 10 more years, anyway). Make an initial ½ gallon batch. Freeze all of it as ice cubes. Use those as starter for future batches, saving-off and freezing whey fraction as you go.
re: «…people are fermenting for 36-48 hours whereas normally yogurt can be made overnight.»
Part of that might be the low initial CFUs, but even starting with 2 thawed ice cubes seems to require more time than usual yogurts. Could we tweak the recipe for faster growth (e.g. more simple carbs)? If we did, would we get the same beneficial mix of bacteria and their metabolites? I don’t know, but I expect someone will explore this once the full spectrum of adult benefits (and any concerns) are nailed down. Biogaia has only 10 more years to exploit the patent, and I expect them to do so (beats squatting on it, as many patent holders do).
re: «Yet another reason not to mix reuteri with other lactobacillus strains I think.»
In addition to your caution, it’s also worthwhile to point out that it’s an accident when a random probiotic makes a decent yogurt. I recall seeing one report that a high-CFU multi-strain probiotic we recommend (for taking straight) made a horrible-tasting yogurt. A particular caution is needed for probiotics containing non-bacterial species, like yeasts/fungi. These can result in alcohol, which could kill off the bacteria.
re: «…not suggesting that the Life Space product is a substitute…»
Agreed, but it’s a very interesting probiotic on its own. Thanks for mentioning it.
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Read the above reply to Stewart with interest. You mention freezing the first batch and using portions as starters… I was about to ask you about that. I am on day two of makingca new batch but it is notvthivjening much. I am having problems maintaining the temperature. I have ordered a yogurt maker and am awaiting delivery. Could I cool and then freeze this batch and then defrost it and try it again in the yogurt making machine ? Thanks Bob
Marie wrote: «I am on day two of makingca new batch but it is notvthivjening much.»
Sorry, “notvthivjening” is completely incomprehensible.
re: «I am having problems maintaining the temperature.»
If it went above 117°F, the culture might be dead. You could freeze it, then run a pasteurization cycle on it when you get the yogurt maker. You will need a new inoculation of starter.
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All bacteria have an optimal culture growth temperature. In the bacteria of interest here, L. Reuteri ATTC PTA 6475, the optimal culture temperature is 97F. By 110 -115F, growth has already become significantly inhibited and by about 122F, growth ceases. By implication, a culture temperature of 97F will inhibit the growth of many types of unwanted organisms. I have to think that growth rate and aggregate end count of the desired L. Reuteri strain at 97F would be many multiples of the numbers at say 115 F. Anybody have any further thoughts on this?
Also, it seems unclear what the end goal should be: maximization of the live culture count, or instead, maximization of the accumulated metabolic products for consumption.
Steve C. wrote: «…L. Reuteri ATTC PTA 6475, the optimal culture temperature is 97F.…»
Thanks for digging that up. Got the number for DSM 17938 by any chance? ☺
That lower temp would tend to explain why Dr. Davis’ relatively casual pulsed-oven based process works pretty well.
It also adds to annoyance with the various appliances out there, few of which document their “yogurt” temp, and if they do, fail to specify over what range that is controlled, plus don’t mention what gradient might be expected from base to top, and almost never provide fine control over target yogurt temp.
re: «Also, it seems unclear what the end goal should be: maximization of the live culture count, or instead, maximization of the accumulated metabolic products for consumption.»
Or perhaps: all of the above.
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I purchased a euro cruise ym100 yogurt maker (saw that model or brand somewhere on the wb blog). So far my first batch turned out the best as in mostly solid. Followed the recipe of 10 tablets, one tablespoon inulin powder and used organic half/half. Where I am needing help on this experiment is the basics and what needs to be followed because subsequent batches have not had the same texture as the first and are more runny. The yogurt manufacturer wants me to bring the milk to 180F or until starts to boil. Then place the pan in cool water and cool the milk down to 110F. Is this really necessary when the milk is already pasteurized and in some cases ultra pasteurized? I am assuming this statement is in the manual for milk directly from the cow, goat or whatever rather than store bought processed milk. I have not heated the milk per the directions but rather warmed the milk from fridge temp to approximately room temp or a little higher. Another area of disregard is I have only rinsed out the seven glass jars after the batches are done (48 hour run) but have not used soap and dried them before starting the next batch. There is sometimes a trace amount of residue in what appears to be a design of the jars that is hard to get out without assistance of a jar brush. Another area of ignorance for me is if I am attempting to run my yogurt maker 24/7 with quick back to back batch restarts, do I have to cool the “starter” seed before putting it into the new batch? So far I have just used a couple table spoons of the yogurt directly from the previous batch while its still at the yogurt maker temp. Maybe I am being way too lazy or I need to buy a second yogurt maker to allow for better cleaning, cool down, etc cause I have several family members interested in this so demand is high. Please advise of my lacking of understanding of yogurt making. Thanks for any further advise. If I need to subscribe to undoctored for more info please give me a plug for that because I have been thinking about getting on that blog as well.
One other inconsistency I need to mention is the second batch I used goat milk and the third batch I used regular whole milk. Second and third batch were about the same consistency. All of these should work from what I have read but forgot that bit of information. I realize I should probably have continued with the organic half/half for second and third run until l learn what I am doing.
David M wrote: «I purchased a euro cruise [Cuisine] ym100 yogurt maker…»
That product, alas, is like most, and fails to document what temp it ferments at, how tightly that is controlled, and provides no means for fine-tuning the temp. The timer also only runs to a maximum of 15 hours. I confirmed this by downloading the manual.
Have you been able to determine what temperature range it runs at?
re: «Where I am needing help on this experiment is the basics and what needs to be followed because subsequent batches have not had the same texture as the first and are more runny.»
No instant insight on that.
re: «… 180F … cool the milk down to 110F. Is this really necessary when the milk is already pasteurized and in some cases ultra pasteurized?»
For ingredients already pasteurized, that’s your call. It is essential with raw dairy. It does assure that the containers are reasonably sterile, so I do it regardless of ingredient type (including a batch from powdered goat milk, which worked). Don’t add the inulin or potato starch (and not, of course, the starter) before pasteurizing.
re: «…run my yogurt maker 24/7 with quick back to back batch restarts, do I have to cool the “starter” seed before putting it into the new batch?»
I wouldn’t think that necessary, but I’ve never tried. I’m presently using, as starter, slowly-thawed frozen whey fraction from a batch earlier this year.
Can you just get extra jars for the maker, so you can thoroughly clean them? Heck, Having extras would allow you to store the yogurt in them directly, with no transfer to storage containers required.
re: «If I need to subscribe to undoctored for more info please give me a plug for that…»
We have many yogurt discussions on the Inner Circle site, but this particular set of issues hasn’t yet arisen. You might get great value from UIC for other reasons, of course.
re: «…I have been thinking about getting on that blog as well.»
UIC isn’t a blog, per se. Do, however, check both Blogs: this one, and the Undoctored blog.
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Bob, thanks for the reply. As for the device temperature, I will check it during the next batch and report. Buying extra jars, yes I have looked into that but the specific branded jars were only $10 less than buying a second unit so may just get a second unit. May pursue 4 ounce canning jars as a possible cheaper alternate. However, I have also been looking at the bulk units that make one or even two quarts at a time. Thanks for the thoughts on the heating to 180 however I will wash these jars better just in case they are picking up microbes from the air that are messing with the mixture. I am early in this yogurt project and looking forward to how this new wing of WB/Undoctored turns out. I have been on WB since 2014 and it has helped me greatly however I always feel like I never am extreme enough to truly get the best results (as in counting carbs accurately to ensure 15/meal or 50 per day limits or daily taking glucose levels). Seems like there is always some food that has a bad sugar or hydrogenated oil, high fructose corn syrup, food coloring, etc that always seem to be around even though label vetting and heavy shopping in the produce isle occurs yet the family is reasonably consistent with low carb, high fat, gluten/grain free… Its a challenge and I consider myself experienced with this life style but very glad Dr. Davis came along.
David M wrote: «…I have looked into that but the specific branded jars were only $10 less than buying a second unit so may just get a second unit.»
Make sure you know how the present device works (temp wise) before doing that, in addition to checking to see if any generic jars (such as Ball®) fit the device.
re: «Seems like there is always some food that has a bad sugar or hydrogenated oil, high fructose corn syrup, food coloring, etc…»
Yep. If you don’t deep-dive the label, there will be at least one nasty surprise when you get home. Even on products you’ve previously checked, re-check them once a year or so. Sometimes the puffy promotional copy provides subtle warnings.
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Bob,
DSM 17938 is a daughter strain also reportedly 97 F. There are probably thousands of strains of this single reuteri species, each with slight or strikingly different characteristics and metabolic products.
With regard to DSM 17938, milk will work, but is not optimal. Inulin is also probably not optimal. I think to get really big numbers (and I mean really big) there has to be provision for the addition of adequate proper growth enhancing supplementation. Then it would be off to the races.
Any suggestions about what would be an appropriate medium if milk is less than optimal? What do microbiologists use to grow bacteria in the lab?
Stuart wrote: «What do microbiologists use to grow bacteria in the lab?»
Some hints in the footnote-referenced Figure#7 of this paper: PloS|one: Exploring Metabolic Pathway Reconstruction and Genome-Wide Expression Profiling in Lactobacillus reuteri to Define Functional Probiotic Features
That figure, alas, is a TIFF, so you’ll need an image viewer supporting that graphics file format.
The substrates on the X axis are: Final OD600 nm reached by L. reuteri ATCC 55730 (light grey) and L. reuteri ATCC PTA 6475 (dark grey) after 24 h of growth in LDM medium with 20 g/L of different carbon source. Strains were grown in anoxic conditions at 37°C. FOS: fructooligosaccharide; ScFOS: fructooligosaccharides; Raftiline HP: long-chain inulin. Error bars represent standard deviations. Data represent the average of 3 biological replicates.
Steve C. wrote: «DSM 17938 is a daughter strain also reportedly 97 F.»
Thanks. I’m going to be running an experimental batch using technique that should allow me to hit that.
re: «Inulin is also probably not optimal.»
I personally consider it to be a buffer. It will keep the colonies going even if they exhaust the simpler carbs, preventing colony collapse disorder (so to speak) and providing some slop in run times, given that temp control is often imprecise.