Dr. William Davis

Cardiologist + Author + Health Crusader

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The arithmetic of yogurt

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I’ve been recently discussing how and why we make yogurt with two strains of Lactobacillus reuteri to augment our oxytocin status and thereby enjoy additional weight loss, reduce appetite, grow muscle, increase bone density, obtain younger more supple skin with increased collagen, accelerate healing, increase testosterone in males, etc.

I’ve received a considerable amount of feedback from people who have been making L. reuteri yogurt and consuming 1/2 cup per day: reduced facial wrinkles, smoother skin, dramatic reduction or elimination of appetite, increased energy, better mood, reduced bruising (specifically senile purpora), receding surface veins, increased libido—some fairly dramatic results.

But I’ve also been hearing comments like “I made the yogurt and let it ferment for 7 hours and it was still liquid.” Or “I fermented my yogurt for 12 hours, then put it in the refrigerator.”

Too little time allowed for yogurt to ferment will impair your results. The doubling time of L. reuteri, i.e., the amount of time required for, say, 1000 microorganisms to become 2000 microorganisms, is around 3 hours in the presence of prebiotic fibers. (Bacterial reproduction—doubling time—is shortened by fermenting yogurt by adding prebiotic fibers such as inulin or raw potato starch or sugar.) This means 8 doublings over the course of 24 hours.

So let’s say that you start your yogurt-making experience with one billion microorganisms (“CFUs”) of L. reuteri. Three hours later, you will have two billion. Six hours later, four billion. Nine hours later, eight billion, and so on.

You let fermentation proceed for 24 hours and now have 256 billion. (We are not accounting for bacterial death for simplicity. And, anyway, L. reuteri does not have to be alive to exert oxytocin release from the hypothalamus.) But look at the numbers after the initial 24 hours:

27 hours: 512 billion
30 hours: 1.26 trillion
33 hours: 2.52 trillion
36 hours: 5.04 trillion

Get the idea? At 36 hours, the initial one billion microorganisms have ballooned to over 5 trillion, far better than, say, the 8 billion present after only 12 hours. Such is the magic of exponential expansion of numbers. The most important period of fermentation to generate substantial bacterial counts is not the initial period, but the later periods as doubling allows exponential growth to very substantial numbers. This cannot go on forever, of course, limited by competition for available nutrients, such as the prebiotic fiber we add at the beginning, as well as increasing separation into curds and whey.

Longer fermentation time also allows production of more lactic acid that reduces yogurt’s pH, making it more acidic, more tart. Beyond the gustatory aspect, an acidic pH further denatures, or breaks down, the casein beta A1 protein, the potentially immunogenic protein of North American dairy. It also increases butyrate content produced by L. reuteri, the short-chain fatty acid believed to account for many of the beneficial effects of bowel flora such as reduced blood pressure, reduced insulin resistance, reduced triglycerides, and perhaps the mind-emotional effects, effects outside of the oxytocin-boosting benefits.

Bottom line: Allow fermentation to proceed for a minimum of 24 hours, preferably 30-36 hours, to extract maximum benefit. This is not so much about yogurt but about maximizing the population of L. reuteri and its metabolites. And the end-product is far richer and flavorful than anything you can buy at the grocery store.

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Comments & Feedback...

  1. My batches come out thick as pictured, but the pills have an aroma that isn’t very pleasant and you can taste in the yogurt. Any suggestions?
    So far I haven’t noticed any improvements in general health or skin, but I’m hopeful!

    • Kate wrote: «…aroma that isn’t very pleasant and you can taste in the yogurt.»

      It’s to some extend an acquired taste (perhaps a bit more so than generic yogurt). Sweetening (stevia and monk fruit are a nice match), and adding flavorings (like fresh or frozen fruit) work.

      If pulling starter, be sure to do so before adding fruit.

      re: «So far I haven’t noticed any improvements in general health or skin, but I’m hopeful!»

      How long is your ferment, and what is your daily portion size?
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      • I have fermented 36 hours on one batch and about 30 on the other. I switched to a yogurt maker after an infamous towel catching fire in the oven event, and the results have been pretty good.

        I think half and half works much better than heavy cream. It must have more lactose for fermentation.

        I eat at least a half a cup a day.

  2. I’ve made several batches. If I let it ferment more than about 14 hrs, it loses the really tasty flavor, which is something akin to a mild cream cheese. Also. a couple times letting it go for 18-20 hours created a lumpy mess with a strange flavor.

    With each batch I use 1/2 cup of the previous batch, plus 2 crushed tablets to make sure I am maintaining the L. reuteri strains.

    I consume about 1/2 cup daily.

    I can’t go along with this statement,… “And the end-product is far richer and flavorful than anything you can buy at the grocery store.” Like I mentioned, the flavor of the yogurt, fermenting more than say, 16 hours, creates something I’d probably stop eating after a while because the of objectionable flavor.

    • BTW, I make about a half gallon at a time,….. One half gallon of whole milk plus 1/2 cup of HWC plus 1/2 cup of yogurt from the previous batch.

      • Hi Robert, I saw picture of your recipe here:
        http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/Gyrobob_theOriginal/media/cGF0aDpIZWFsdGh5IFN0dWZmL3lvZ3VydCBvbiByZWQgcGxhdGUgMDFhX3pwc25vZThrdHZqLmpwZw==/?ref=

        It looks amazing ! I also read your recipe:

        “I get the best results using ten minutes at 180F for pasteurization and 14 hours at 110F for fermentation. I use 1/2 gallon whole milk, 1/2 cup HWC, 1/2 cup previous batch yogurt, 2 tbsp. inulin, and 2 BG crushed tablets. It makes a yogurt so firm you can slice it. Tasty, too.”

        I was just wondering which equipement you were using to get such results, do you use a yogurt maker and if so, does it have precise temp. control or are you using plain oven with the Dr. Davis advices (start 300F for 60-90s and repeat every 4-6h) ?

        I’ve made 2-3 batch so far and first was way to thick and second was way to clear… I use 1/2 quart whole milk and 1/2 quart HWC together with (first attemp) 10 tables of BioGaia + tbsp Inulin, let it go for 36 hours.

        Thanx you very much for any reply,

  3. Has anyone tried this successfully with goats milk? I made delicious yoghurt with cows cream. I could have eaten gallons! But as I’m sensitive (and only ate a few spoonfuls) I thought I’d try goats milk.

    I have tried 2 batches with goats milk and both have separated, bubbled up strangely, and smelt and tasted awful, and one mouthful made me want to vomit!!

    Am I doing something wrong?? Or should I just stick to cows milk??

    • Anji wrote: «Has anyone tried this successfully with goats milk?»

      Yes, using raw goat milk from our herd, milked over a year ago (frozen, then thawed and pasteurized for the yogurt).

      Another batch is in the pot now, although for this batch, I added a qt. of bovine cream. You probably didn’t add any cream to yours, and that wouldn’t be surprising if you wanted to stick with just caprine dairy, because goat cream is hard to come by.

      What was the source of your goat milk?

      Oddly, back when our herd was in milk (they’re retired now), the milk, yogurts and cheeses made then were amazing for lack of goaty taste (these are dwarf Nigerians), but my initial batch of L.reuteri yogurt had a definite goaty taste (not so much as to be objectionable; just similar to commercial goat diary products).
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      • Goat milk is apparently a more tolerable dairy source. It’s said to have the A2 protein, unlike the structure of cows milk.

      • Ive successfully made yoghurt with goat milk before- I don’t know what happened but twice it’s come out vile!! I used full fat pasteurised milk and some goat double cream. I’m going to revert to cow’s milk as a) it’s expensive having to throw it all away and b) I think the process of yoghurt making makes the milk more palatable!

        Great to hear about your herd though!

      • I am going to try to get some goats milk, but I wonder if this can be made with Almond Milk? I also drink Flax milk…as I am not tolerant to dairy. I just ordered a yogurt maker and the bacteria. I am super excited to try this. As I do a ketogenic way of life I am hoping to find it low enough carb to have this each day.
        My husband can do dairy so he will love this!
        Thank you for all the helpful comments.

        • Kathryn wrote: «I am going to try to get some goats milk,…»

          That works, as you can see above. Make sure it contains only goat milk. If you can get raw (which is what we have on hand), be sure to pasteurize it first, and cool it to 110°F, before adding the crushed Gastrus®, and additional substrates like inulin and potato starch.

          re: «…but I wonder if this can be made with Almond Milk?»

          My guess: that’s highly unlikely to work, apart from issues regarding whatever AM you had in mind.

          Even a home made AM probably doesn’t have enough carbohydrate to culture. You may be low carb, but lactobacilli are definitely not. They simply must have carb substrate to do their thing. Almonds are not high enough in carbs, and what carbs they have are bound up in fine particles that may still be too large for microbes to digest. The other junk in commercial AMs could easily be toxic to the bacilli.

          We definitely need some sure-fire non-dairy yogurt recipes. I’m inclined to think that almond-based won’t be one of them.

          re: «As I do a ketogenic way of life…»

          That sounds like you are following a plan that isn’t necessarily Wheat Belly or Undoctored (which is very low net carb, but not full-time keto). KD is a tool in the box here, but has a consideration that must be attended to.

          re: «… I am hoping to find it low enough carb to have this each day.»

          Theoretically, carefully fermented foods would be expected to be very low carb. Run the ferment long enough for the microbes to consume nearly all of the carbon substrate. Many people on the WB/Undoctored program, who are making this yogurt, are also closely monitoring their metabolic status, often via postprandial BG (for which the program goal is “no rise” from FBG). They aren’t seeing a problem. This is expected to be a high fat, low/moderate protein, very low net carb food.

          Commercial fermented foods, of course, are all over the place on carbs. Brand name yogurts can be high in residual sugars, and even have more sugar added post-ferment. Thanks to dim-witted FDA rules, the NF panel is usually not helpful, as it commonly overstates the post-ferment carbs.
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  4. Third try posting my notes here … Tried to say more, but not going to put in the effort. Please fix your website.
    I have successfully used half and half as substrate for 6 different bacterial sources: Chobani plain non-fat yogurt, FAGE total plain 2% yogurt, Primal Defense Ultra probiotic capsule, Nature’s Bounty Cardio-Health probiotic capsule, Hyperbiotics Pro-15 probiotic capsule, and BioGaia Gastrus chewable tablet.

    Chobani
    Lactobacillus Bulgaricus, L. Acidophilus, L. Casei, Streptococcus Thermophilus, Bifidobacterium Bifidus

    Very easy to propagate. A large spoon of the commercial product stirred into a quart of pasteurized half and half is sufficient. Culture at 110 degrees Fahrenheit for 12 hours. Multiple generations are easily achievable. Good taste.

    FAGE
    Lactobacillus Bulgaricus, L. Acidophilus, L. Casei, Streptococcus Thermophilus, Bifidobacterium Bifidus

    Same strains as Chobani; however, I found the first generation a little slower going. Subsequent generations are easy with good results. Again 12 hours at 110*F works fine.

    Primal Defense Ultra

    Primal Defense Ultra (5 billion CFU per capsule)
    Saccharomyces boulardii, Lactobacillus plantarum, L. rhamnosus, L. casei, L. salivarius, L. acidophilus, L. brevis, L. paracasei, Bacillus subtilis, Bifidobacterium lactis, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Bifidobacterium breve, Bifidobacterium longum

    I cultured Primal Defense ultra from a single capsule. Procedure: Heat ~50 ml of whole milk in a small jar and heat to about 200*F in the microwave (sterilization). Cover the jar and allow to cool to room temperature. Empty the contents of the capule into the jar and hold at 110*F for 24 hours. Pour the culture into a quart of steril half and half and hold at 110 degrees for 12 to 18 hours until solid. Subsequent generations will complete in about 12 hours.

    Notes: A Primal Defense Ultra tablet contains a black powder as the substrate. It is unsightly, but tends to fall to the bottom of the culture. Subsequent generations do not have the peppery appearance. Taste is good, but somewhat acidic.

    Nature’s Bounty Cardio-Health
    Lactobacillus reuteri NCIMB 30242 (2.5 billion CFU per capsule)

    Culture this using the same procedure described under Primal Defense Ultra.

    Notes: This has a mild flavor and good texture. Appetite suppression. Also, a friend who tried this said they felt “high” after consuming a sample of this.

    Hyperbiotics Pro-15
    (5 billion CFU per capsule)
    Lactobacillus plantarum, L. fermentum, L. acidophilus, L. casei, L. rhamnosus, L. reuteri, L. salavaris, L. paracasei, L. gasseri, Bifidobacterium infantis, B. longum, B. lactis, B. bifidum, B. breve, Streptococcus thermophilus

    Culture this using the same procedure described under Primal Defense Ultra. This is a solid spherical tablet which I cut into pieces with a sharp knife before culturing. It may dissolve on its own, which I would try next. Somewhat acidic taste in the final product.

    Amazon seller notes:
    There are 15 Top Strains formulated in Hyperbiotics PRO-15. Here is an overview of our favorite 8:
    L. fermentum – Identified as highly antimicrobial and antioxidative. Helps inhibit the growth of harmful bacteria, yeast and other pathogens and has demonstrated clinical efficacy within immune health.
    L. acidophilus – Creates a fortress of good colonies that helps keep unwanted organisms out of your gut. Studies show that L. acidophilus helps to reduce occasional diarrhea and enhances your immune system and may help to reduce cholesterol levels. Studies have shown that those taking L. acidophilus experienced significantly more relief from their gastrointestinal discomfort than did those taking a placebo.
    L. casei – Along with L. Acidophilus, converts lactose into lactic acid, helping those who are lactose intolerant. Helps to encourage the growth of other beneficial bacteria.
    B. longum – Assists in breaking down carbohydrates and fighting free radicals. Provides potent antioxidant support and helps to reduce the effects of seasonal allergies.
    B. lactis – Helps decrease H. pylori and helps the production of the front line cells in your immune system.
    L. rhamnosus – The leading defense for travelers. Helps reduce occurrences of traveler’s diarrhea and food poisoning.
    L. plantarum – Secretes the oxidant hydrogen peroxide which acts as a weapon to protect your body and must be present for your immune system to function correctly. Creates a healthy barrier in your colon and helps lower luminal pH, creating an unfavorable environment for the growth of pathogens including molds, yeasts and bacteria.
    B. Infantis – Has been shown to reduce the major symptoms of gastrointestinal disorders, including diarrhea, flatulence, bloating, cramping and constipation. It is particularly popular as a means of combating Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) and has been shown to improve digestion and the body’s ability to absorb and process nutrients. see less
    By Hyperbiotics SELLER on Amazon April 19, 2014
    =============================================================

    BioGaia Gastrus
    L. reuteri ATCC PTA 6475 – 100 million CFU, L. reuteri DSM 17938 – 100 million CFU

    Note: I have only cultured this once from a single tablet, so the procedure is not “tried and true”. Suggestions welcome… 4/24/2018

    To culture BioGaia Gastrus I crushed a single tablet while it was still inside its blister pack. I was trying to keep things as sterile as possible due to the low cfu count. I heated 50 ml of whole milk in a small jar to nearly boiling and covered it. When cool, I sliced open the blister pack and poured the contents into the jar. I cultured this for 24 hours at 100*F (not 110 degrees). After 24 hours I added an additional 50 ml of sterile milk. After 24 hours, the culture was still quite runny, so I let it go another 24 hours. At this point the culture had been developing for 3 full days and had some signs of thickening. I poured this culture into a quart of freshly opened half and half and cultured at 105 degrees F for 24 hours. The culture was thin, but thickened somewhat in the refrigerator.

    I made a second generation from this very thin yogurt, culturing at 107 degrees F. for 24 hours. This batch solidified well. From this I made a third generation, which I cultured at 100 degrees Fahrenheit. This batch finished in 14 hours; however, it was likely done earlier. (I didn’t check it until 14 hours elapsed.)

    General Comments
    Taste:
    All of these taste better than commercial products. I think using half and half is the major factor. Also, compared to each other, the L. Reuteri strains have a milder flavor than the mixed cultures.

    Appetite suppression
    I find all of these to be very filling. Four or five ounces is plenty; however, if you mix these with a sweetener (honey or fruit) you will want to eat more. It does indeed decrease appetite for many hours once you get away from it. I found that BioGaia Gastrus culture suppressed appetite and induced a mild nausea.

    Side effects
    Others have tried these experimental products. So far everyone (men, women and children) like the taste. No one has had negative comments or reported ill effects. One person thought they felt a little ‘high’ after consuming L. reuteri NCIMB 30242. I experience a slight nausea with the BioGaia Gastrus culture.

    Culturing temperature
    I think the L. reuteri strains do better at lower temperatures. I will continue to use 100*F for them and 110*F for the mixed strains.

    Source Cultures
    FAGE
    Lactobacillus Bulgaricus, L. Acidophilus, L. Casei, Streptococcus Thermophilus, Bifidobacterium Bifidus

    Primal Defense Ultra (5 billion CFU per capsule)
    Saccharomyces boulardii, Lactobacillus plantarum, L. rhamnosus, L. casei, L. salivarius, L. acidophilus, L. brevis, L. paracasei, Bacillus subtilis, Bifidobacterium lactis, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Bifidobacterium breve, Bifidobacterium longum

    Nature’s Bounty Cardio-Health (2.5 billion CFU per capsule)
    Lactobacillus reuteri NCIMB 30242

    Hyperbiotics Pro-15 (5 billion CFU per capsule)
    Lactobacillus plantarum, L. fermentum, L. acidophilus, L. casei, L. rhamnosus, L. reuteri, L. salavaris, L. paracasei, L. gasseri, Bifidobacterium infantis, B. longum, B. lactis, B. bifidum, B. breve, Streptococcus thermophilus

    BioGaia Gastrus
    L. reuteri ATCC PTA 6475 – 100 million CFU, L. reuteri DSM 17938 – 100 million CFU

    • Ray wrote: «Third try posting my notes here … Tried to say more, but not going to put in the effort.»

      What happened? If, for example, you included more than one link, your previous submissions may have gone into moderation (I’m not the moderator).

      re: «Please fix your website.»

      It may have more to do with how WordPress works. Here are some tips, many of which apply to most blogs running on WP. I’ve gotten into the habit of composing blog replies off-line, saving them locally, and pasting them, just in case.

      re: «I have successfully used half and half as substrate for 6 different bacterial sources»

      Thanks for the report. It’s worth reminding people that it’s basically luck when a non-yogurt probiotic (like L.reuteri ATCC PTA 6475 & DSM 17938) makes a palatable yogurt. Some folks on the subscription forum have reported sour results with some strain mixes.

      re: «…crushed a single tablet while it was still inside its blister pack.»

      Neat. Useful trick for people who lack a mortar and pestle of credible sterility.
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      • I suspect there are a couple of posts in moderation. What happened was everything seemed fine after hitting the “Share My Comment” button, but the post(s) never appeared.

        A point I wanted to make was that the time to culture L. Reuteri is about 12 to 16 hours if you have a decent starter. Once the culture solidifies it should be taken out of the incubator, otherwise the taste begins to deteriorate. The BioGaia Gastrus tablets have a low cfu count, so they should be stepped up before trying to culture an entire quart. Also, they seem to do better at 100 degrees F. rather than 110.

  5. So if I do one litre and finish up with 256 billion after 25 hours then thats 256 million per ml. If I then make a second batch of 1 Litre using 50 ml of the first batch as a starter my starting point would be 12.5 billion which then fermented for 24 hours would be 3.2 trillion or 3.2 billion per ml.
    A half cup of this would provide 400 billion. T
    hen we should only need a spoon or so of starter for each subsequent batch to get 3 billion per ml.

    My conclusion is that its only the first batch that needs a longer fermentation to achieve a respectable bacteria count.

    Does this make sense?

    • I’m not sure about the bacteria counts; however, I agree that the first batch needs special handling. When the bacterial counts are low, the presence of a competing species has a much greater effect. Therefore, it is important to use as sterile a technique as you can muster when stepping up your initial batch.

      It took me a long time to get a decent BioGaia Gastrus starter going. It took 72 hours to get to get a starter that looked like it might work, which I then pitched into a quart of half and half. After 24 hours, I had a watery product that I then used to start what became a successful, thick product in 24 hours. A large spoonful from this batch in a quart of half and half created a good product in 12 hours.

      So, subsequent batches are easier because the starter has a much higher bacterial count and the process will complete more quickly.

        • No, I don’t. In fact, I did not use it when culturing BioGaia Gastrus from a single tablet, because I thought a sterile procedure was more important.

          • Well I’m 6 hours in with my first attempt. 1 litre milk, 1 spoon inulin and 10 crushed tablets.
            Fingers crossed..

          • I used a similar recipe, only with single cream, and it was amazing!! I let it ferment for about 33 hours…and it is so delicious!!

  6. Holy low carb guacamole! I just got my latest A1C results. 4.5 (corresponds to avg glucose of 82)! My FBG has been registering in the 90s quite a bit since I went back on a ketogenic diet after my short break, with occasional trips over 100. I think I have been eating too much protein, but my body has been craving it, and I have been stressing over it. Either my meter is wrong (I don’t think so because I occasionally cross check with different meters) or the ketogenic diet is protecting me somehow. It would be great to have more research to verify this, because the topic of higher fasting glucose on long-term keto is controversial and I never know who to believe.

    I have educated opinions about what is going on, and I’m not going to worry about it anymore.

    For anyone here who doesn’t know me, I follow a keto version of Wheat Belly, and that is how I lost over 150 lbs. Keto is not recommended long-term on the WB/Undoctored program, but I think I am living proof that if you have a medical reason to want to do so (mine is breast cancer), it is possible to do it in a healthy way by following the majority of Dr. Davis’ advice.

    • Kali wrote: «Holy low carb guacamole!»

      Since you posted this on a BGY thread, has the yogurt played any role in…

      re: «… A1C results. 4.5 … FBG has been registering in the 90s …»

      Excellent. What have you been doing about prebiotic fiber? For the benefit of bystanders, the WB/Undoctored program cautions on chronic keto unless treating an otherwise unresponsive or very concerning chronic ailment.

      re: «Either my meter is wrong…»

      Another cross-check for glycemic issues is TG (triglycerides). If that’s hitting program target (60mg/dL max.), then gluconeogensis of excess protein (if that’s the concern you’re hinting at) is likely not an issue. Checking ketone levels is another cross-check.

      re: «…the topic of higher fasting glucose on long-term keto is controversial…»

      If we could get those KD enthusiasts to report what they are (or are not) doing about microbiome, we might get some clarity on that. Many people define a full-time KD as 20 grams per day (or less) total carbs — it probably needs to be 20g or less net carbs, and no less than 20g/day prebiotic carbs (which are not included in the net).
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      • Off topic to this post because it was the last one up, but very topical to my life and the stuff I talk about around here. I haven’t made yogurt yet just because I find the whole process intimidating. I will get around to it, but I don’t think I will be trying L. reuteri because it might raise estrogen, and that isn’t a good thing for someone in my predicament.

        I usually keep it under 20g net carbs per day but I get a lot of fiber, prebiotic and otherwise. It’s not as hard as you might think, and I will try to post more information at a later time to add to the info store. I could seriously write a book and I should someday – everything I wish someone would have told me when I started down this road. I do also take a high-potency probiotic with 16 strains daily – all of the time for insurance. It is made by Douglas Labs.

        I thought my doctor ordered blood lipids and vitamin D, but they are not online yet so maybe they are not finished. Historically my TG have been 65 on this program regardless of what I do. I think my cancer med prevents it from going lower. I’m not concerned about this, but I’m switching to a different med very soon that could make the problem worse. I don’t know what to expect, though. I’ve done pretty well escaping most of the side effects of a drug that makes other people very miserable, and I am convinced it is because I don’t eat grains and I exercise.

      • My test results were updated and I got the FBG number. It was 83 vs. my meter’s 93 a few minutes before the test, so it is the meter that has been wrong. Maybe not such a bad thing it happened because it made me work harder to try to manage it and I ended up with 4.5 A1C! I think I’ll keep it. Now I also know the extra protein hasn’t been raising it as much as I thought. I think I have been craving more protein due to an increase of resistance exercise, and that is perfectly normal.

        Vitamin D hanging in at 63. No lipids so I think she forgot to order. I’m due for a bunch of other labs and it’s time to see my ND for that because he will run anything I ask him to.

        The only other remarkable result is that my thyroid is still in good shape. I was hypo before I started the WB/Undoctored program, and I can’t take even natural dessicated thyroid so I had to address it without meds. Trace amounts of iodine and ashwagandha supplements have done the job, and the really remarkable part is that I went through menopause since my last thyroid test, and that is often when these problems get worse for women.

        It is not an overstatement to say that you really can cure yourself of many ailments following this program.

    • Chuck Sanderson wrote: «I’m seeing some articles suggesting that L. Reuteri may produce histamine, and therefore could cause inflammation in some people.»

      Thanks for keeping an eye out for black swans. If the HPLC spike seen in vitro (the PLoS paper) is material, we also need to consider whether it’s material in vivo (in people). If we consider the paper itself, it has a long paragraph that leads off with: “Histamine is well known for its pro-inflammatory effects in allergy and anaphylaxis; however several studies have demonstrated anti-inflammatory or immunoregulatory functions of histamine. …”

      Anecdotally, I know someone who avoids even organic red wine due to a prompt reaction (presumed to be histamine), but has no problem at all with the L.r.ATCC PTA 6475 yogurt.

      On your second link (the PANS case), the specific strain of L.reuteri in use wasn’t reported in that article, although it did cite the same PLoS paper in saying “L. acidophilus and L. reuteri have been debated as histamine raising or neutral so they are also best avoided.” Speculating any further on that case would require a deeper dive into overall diet, and what, if any, prebiotic fiber protocol is in use.

      It’s probably worth pointing out that this L.r. yogurt experiment is being performed within the context of the current Wheat Belly / Undoctored program. Benefits of the yogurt might vanish entirely for people still on standard diets, not otherwise attending to gut flora cultivation, or with unresolved SIBO, for example.
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  8. The comments on the older post are closed so I’ll ask here:)
    If using coconut milk for your yogurt, do you need to pre-heat it to 180?
    You mentioned making a yogurt making FAQ, looking forward to reading it!

    • Sunny wrote: «The comments on the older post are closed so I’ll ask here:)»

      Any open thread is fine. If it happens to be on topic, as here, cool.

      re: «If using coconut milk for your yogurt, do you need to pre-heat it to 180?»

      I didn’t on my first try, and got a strange 1-inch clump of something growing out of the top; presumably some undesired opportunistic microbe, possibly fungal. Tossed the batch. So I plan to pasteurize the coconut milk for the next experiment (not yet scheduled).

      re: «You mentioned making a yogurt making FAQ, looking forward to reading it!»

      I’m looking forward to knowing enough to write it.
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