Here is a summary on the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt that I have been talking about over several blog posts, all put together for ease.
I’ve been discussing this idea of making yogurt by starting with a specific strain of Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA 6475, based on the detailed studies conducted at MIT and elsewhere, both experimental animal and human, that have suggested dramatic effects. Those effects include:
- Complete shut-down of appetite, an “anorexigenic” effect, that can be used to facilitate intermittent fasting or break a weight loss plateau. This, along with an increase in metabolic rate, explain why weight loss results.
- Dramatic increase in skin thickness and skin collagen, along with acceleration of skin healing, a surrogate for overall youthfulness and health. I’m a big fan of dietary collagen, such as those provided by collagen hydrolysates, bone broths/soups, slow-cooking meats, eating the skin on chicken and fish, etc. This L. reuteri strategy amplifies this effect considerably.
- Increased oxytocin–A doubling of oxytocin blood levels was observed in mice, the effect responsible for the extravagant skin benefits, reduced insulin resistance, dramatic increases in testosterone in males, increased estrogen in females (magnitude unclear), thicker and more plentiful hair (though the consistency of this effect is not yet clear). Other studies have demonstrated substantial weight loss, especially from visceral fat, increased muscle mass, and increased bone density (protection from osteoporosis/osteopenia).
Put all these effects together—caloric reduction, increased skin health, increased bone density, fat loss, muscle gain, reduced insulin resistance, etc.—and you have one of the most powerful anti-aging, youth-preserving strategies I have ever come across.
Because the most robust data were generated using the ATCC PTA 6475 strain of L. reuteri (and, to a lesser extent, the DSM 17938 strain), I have been confining my efforts to this strain. Other L. reuteri strains may mimic these effects, but we simply don’t know that for certain, as the studies have not been performed. Strain specificity can be a crucial factor. After all, all of us have several strains of E. coli in our intestines that live quietly and don’t bother anyone. But, get exposed to selected strains of E. coli from contaminated produce and you develop life-threatening diarrhea that can be fatal, especially in children. Same species (E. coli), different strains—strain specificity can be a critical factor.
So we start with L. reuteri ATCC PTA 6475 provided by the Swedish company, BioGaia, who has somehow locked this species up with patents (not sure how; I thought biological organisms were non-patentable). Their product is called Gastrus and combines the ATCC PTA 6475 strain with the DSM 17938 strain. (Just Google “BioGaia Gastrus” to find a retailer.) Problem: There are only 100 million CFUs (live organisms) per tablet. I have not observed any substantial health benefits by ingesting the tablets.
So I have been amplifying bacterial counts by making yogurt. The counts are further increased by performing fermentation in the presence of prebiotic fibers. Just as ingesting prebiotic fibers increases bacterial counts in your intestines, so it goes in making yogurt, as well. It also yields a thicker, richer end-product.
The yogurt is thick, delicious, and contains a marked increase in bacterial counts, though I have not yet performed a formal count. Given the extraordinary thickness of the end-product, it is likely that trillions of CFUs are present, sufficient to convert the soupy liquid of your starting milk, half-and-half, cream, coconut milk or other starter to rich, thick yogurt, sometimes thick enough to stand up on a plate. People who consume 1/2 cup per day of this preparation (mixed with blueberries, strawberries, etc.) are reporting the effects listed above. And this yogurt is so much richer and better tasting than products you buy in grocery stores.
There are probably many ways to make this yogurt and yield the bacterial counts you desire. But this is how I did it:
1 quart of organic half-and-half (or cream, whole milk, canned coconut milk, goat’s milk/cream, sheep’s milk/cream)
2 tablespoons inulin (or unmodified potato starch or other prebiotic)
10 tablets of BioGaia Gastrus, crushed
If you use coconut milk, you will need to add sugar, e.g., one tablespoon, to the prebiotic or use more sugar in place of the prebiotic, as there is no lactose to ferment in coconut milk. The probiotic tablets can be crushed using a mortar and pestle or other hard object (clean stone, bottom of a thick drinking glass, rolling pin, etc.). Don’t worry: The end-product should have little remaining sugar, as it is fermented to lactic acid. (If in doubt, just let it ferment a few more hours.) Just as the cucumbers you grow in your garden were fertilized with cow manure but ripe cucumbers contain no cow manure, so the final fermented yogurt product should contain little to no sugar.
In large glass/ceramic bowl, combine 2 tablespoons of liquid with the inulin, sugar or other prebiotic, and the crushed probiotic tablets. (We start by making a slurry, as inulin or potato starch will form hard clumps if added to the entire volume.) Mix thoroughly and make sure the prebiotic and sugar are dissolved. Then add the remaining liquid and stir.
Maintain the mixture at 100 degrees F. This can be accomplished with a yogurt maker, Instant Pot, sous vide device, rice cooker, or any other device that allows maintaining a continual temperature in this range. I use my oven: Turn onto any temperature, e.g., 300 degrees, for about 60-90 seconds, just until a desert-hot temperature is reached. Turn off the oven; repeat every 4-6 hours—not precise, but it works fine when using dairy for fermentation. Fermenting coconut milk is much fussier and a continual precise control over temperature will be required, e.g., one of the other devices. I used a yogurt maker and sous vide with good results.
The first batch tends to be a bit thinner with curdles, but subsequent batches tend to be thicker and smoother. To make subsequent batches, reserve a few tablespoons from the prior batch and use in place of crushed tablets, since your yogurt should contain plentiful microbes.
There are some uncertainties:
- Is there reduction in bacterial counts or contamination by air organisms as you make yogurt from prior batches? Some people have “re-seeded” their yogurt by adding a few more crushed tablets of probiotic after several rounds of yogurt-making.
- We’ve arrived at the 1/2-cup “dose” by trial and error, as judged by the anorexigenic effect that results when oxytocin levels increase. But is that the ideal dose? Don’t know yet.
- Can we improve on taste/texture/bacterial counts by altering fermentation temperature, choice of prebiotic, or other conditions?
- If your efforts fail to yield thick yogurt, check the temperature of your device. It may be too high, as the organisms die at 115 degrees F and higher.
Despite the uncertainties, I am witnessing some very dramatic changes in the people following this idea. If you give it a try, be sure to come back and report your experience.
For how long do you ‘maintain it at 110 degrees’? Do you refrigerate it at any point? Does the 2 tbsp you reserve for future batches get refrigerated?
Megan wrote: «For how long do you ‘maintain it at 110 degrees’?»
For the batches I’ve made, between 24 and 36 hours, with the starter saved off at about 12 hours.
The trick is to wait long enough for nearly all of the simple sugars to be fermented, and much of the prebiotic substrate, but not to wait so long that the culture is largely dead (due to starvation by substrate exhaustion), and definitely not so long that native environmental microbes foul the product. Stay below 48 hours in any case to avoid the latter.
re: «Do you refrigerate it at any point?»
We routinely refrigerate the finished product, so as to slow/stop the reaction. You can consume some immediately, if you like it warm, of course.
re: «Does the 2 tbsp you reserve for future batches get refrigerated?»
Absolutely. I’ve been pulling off ¼ cup for this, which may be more than is needed. I’ve also been reinoculating with one crushed tablet every 5th batch done from starter, which may prove to not be necessary.
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Thanks, Bob!!
I’ve made maybe 12 batches of the stuff with varying degrees of success.
I get the best results using ten minutes at 180F for pasteurization and 14 hours at 110F for fermentation. I use 1/2 gallon whole milk, 1/2 cup HWC, 1/2 cup previous batch yogurt, 2 tbsp. inulin, and 2 BG crushed tablets. It makes a yogurt so firm you can slice it. Tasty, too.
Here is some of it sliced on a plate just to illustrate the consistency.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Healthy%20Stuff/yogurt%20on%20red%20plate%2001a_zpsnoe8ktvj.jpg
These tablets have mint and citrus flavoring. How does adding 10 to the batch affect the flavor of plain yogurt?? Can I get an unflavored tablet/capsule?
Also, why do you incubate for 24 or more hours?
Tiffany wrote: «These tablets have mint and citrus flavoring. How does adding 10 to the batch affect the flavor of plain yogurt??»
Can’t say I’ve noticed it at all.
re: «Can I get an unflavored tablet/capsule?»
It does not appear so, short of ordering isolated Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA 6475 as research material (and I haven’t researched how that would be done).
re: «Also, why do you incubate for 24 or more hours?»
See an earlier reply for my personal view on that.
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I get no taste of mint or citrus flavoring in the yogurt when using these pills as a starter.
I ferment for 12-14 hours.
Hi there: I have tried twice to make this in my yogurt maker (Kinetic yogurt maker from Mercola), stays at 43 degree centigrade)- twice and it is totally liquid. I am chilling the last batch to see if it thickens. I dissolved the Gaia tabs and sugar in the goat milk after warmed to 110. Then put it in the glass cups and put it in my yogurt maker for 8 hrs. Not sure what to do. Seems Dr Davis and everyone things getting this probiotic via yogurt is referable. I am game but not sure what I am doing wrong. Would appreciate help
Hi there: I have tried twice to make this in my yogurt maker (Kinetic yogurt maker stays at 43 degree centigrade)- twice and it is totally liquid. I am chilling the last batch to see if it thickens. I dissolved the Gaia tabs and sugar in the goat milk after warmed to 110. Then put it in the glass cups and put it in my yogurt maker for 8 hrs. Not sure what to do. Seems Dr Davis and everyone things getting this probiotic via yogurt is referable. I am game but not sure what I am doing wrong. Would appreciate help
Hillary Anderson wrote: «…Kinetic yogurt maker…»
I looked at the user manual PDF for that, and can’t tell:
. does it offer a pasteurization cycle?
. can the 43°C yogurt cycle be set to run for 18 to 48 hours?
re: «I dissolved the Gaia tabs and sugar in the goat milk after warmed to 110.»
Did you add the tabs whole, or crush them first?
What kind of goat milk, by the way? I just started our first L.reuteri yogurt batch using thawed-out frozen goat milk taken from our Dwarf Nigerians last year, so I don’t yet know what to predict. We have made conventional yogurt with their milk previously.
I considered using sugar, but ended up adding inulin and unmodified potato starch as extra substrate (2 tbsp. each for ½ gallon milk).
re: «Then put it in the glass cups and put it in my yogurt maker for 8 hrs.»
That might simply have been too short an incubation time. With cow’s milk, I’ve been using 24 to 36 hours.
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Hi Bob: the yogurt maker does not have a pasteurization feature. You can set the temp and time for either 6 or 8 hrs. Seems like I might need to ferment longer. I crushed the Gaia tabs with mortar and pestle. Mixed in the sugar and made a slurry with the goat milk. I used Meyenburg goat milk from grocery. Then added slurry to warm milk….used a candy thermometer to measure to 110. Then put the goat milk mixture in yogurt jars into yogurt maker for 8 hrs. I am going to try fermenting longer and see what happens. I think the first batch I allowed to get too hot and likely killed the L. reuteri. Do you think the goat milk is the issue? I am going to get some inulin.
Hillary Anderson wrote: «You can set the temp and time for either 6 or 8 hrs.»
Sounds like that machine was optimized for just Joe’s yogurt recipe. Anyway, we aren’t quite sure where we’ll end up with incubation time and amendments in the L.reuteri project, but chances are it’s going to need more than 8 hours.
re: «I used Meyenburg goat milk from grocery.»
I presume that’s their Whole Goat Milk, and not the powdered or evaporated. It appears that it’s ultra-pasteurized and has Vitamin D3 added. Not sure whether those matter, but I have suspicion the UHT might raise incubation time.
re: «I think the first batch I allowed to get too hot and likely killed the L. reuteri.»
Is that a risk with the Mercola machine?
re: «Do you think the goat milk is the issue?»
As I mentioned earlier, we’ve made conventional yogurt with goat milk using pretty primitive equipment. I expect to know in a couple of days if there’s some special problem with goat milk and L.reuteri. I’m not expecting problems.
Where available (and it isn’t in stores around here), goat milk is an attractive way to avoid some bovine diary issues, particularly casein beta A1 (goat is A2). Since our goats are out of milk now, once our frozen store is used up, I’ll be trying mail-order powdered goat milk. Learnings will be reported.
re: «I am going to get some inulin.»
I’m also a bit unclear on the exact role of inulin here, but can speculate that because it’s a fructose polymer, and fructose is not a substrate preferred by L.reuteri, that would also be expected to extend fermentation time.
If you have been otherwise doing the Undoctored or 2014+ Wheat Belly program, I’m a bit surprised to hear that you didn’t have some inulin on hand. It’s a go-to staple prebiotic fiber in support of gut flora cultivation.
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The flavor, to me, is reminiscent of cream cheese.
I’ve been making this 1/2 gallon at a time. The first batch works okay, then the next couple of batches work okay, but then apparently pulling out a 1/2 cup of a batch for the starter doesn’t work anymore, and I have to start over. A possible cause: some internet sources suggest a batch of starter might lose its potency after four or five days in the fridge.
The only reason I am doing this is for the health benefits brought about by the 6475, so I add a couple crushed tablets with every subsequent batch just to make sure the 6475 strain is maintained.
I found that 12 hrs at 110F is about right. Any less than that and it is not thick enough. I have done 16 hours or so a couple times, but it morphs into a cottage cheese consistency I don’t like.
The easiest way to keep it at 110F is to put a lit 100watt bulb in the oven. That way I can completely ignore it all day, while the oven stays at a steady 110F. Simple and convenient, but precise.
Robert Rominger wrote: «The first batch works okay, then the next couple of batches work okay, but then apparently pulling out a 1/2 cup of a batch for the starter doesn’t work anymore, and I have to start over.»
Thanks for the report.
I haven’t run into starter exhaustion, but have been adding one crushed tablet to every 5th batch made from starter (just as a precautionary measure — we really don’t yet know what the generational limit is, nor precisely what might threaten it).
re: «…but it morphs into a cottage cheese consistency I don’t like.»
I stir in several drops of stevia at serving time anyway, which breaks up the curds. A more interesting question is: what does the bacterial population and metabolite profile look like at various times during the ferment? It may be a while before we have a predictable picture on that.
re: «The easiest way to keep it at 110F is to put a lit 100watt bulb in the oven.»
It’s worth mentioning that this would be a traditional 100W incandescent (Edison) bulb, which are getting hard to find. A “100W equivalent” LED bulb won’t do, at all. It’s also worth mentioning, for those not using a temperature-regulated heating method, that any excursions above about 117°F may impair the culture.
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“I stir in several drops of stevia…” Why not the WFMF sweetener?
“… this would be a traditional 100W incandescent (Edison) bulb, which are getting hard to find. A “100W equivalent” LED bulb won’t do, at all. ” Okay. Let me rephrase that, then. Use any source of heat that emits 6,000 joules of energy per minute. A 100 watt incandescent bulb will do that. This, of course, assumes the oven leaks the correct amount of joules to maintain the interior of the oven at 110 degrees F. For smaller batches (one loaf-sized pan) I have calibrated a cheapo toaster oven that will keep the fermenting mixture right at 110 degrees. The key is to not let the mixture vary a lot, especially being careful to not exceed 110 by more than a couple/few degrees.
When you make a half gallon at a time do you add more than 10 probiotics?
I don’t know what you mean by “10 probiotics.”
I use 8 crushed Biogaia Gastrus tablets in the initial batch, and then I use 2 crushed tablets added to 1/2 cup of the previous batch to start subsequent batches.
I also use 2 tbsp. of inulin in each batch.
Dr. Davis’s recipe calls for 10 crushed Biogaia tablets in one quart of half and half for his first batch. I wondered if making a half gallon if you need more. He uses 1 Tbls of inulin.
I experimented with different amounts of the ingredients for a few weeks. What works best for me is 8 crushed tablets and 2 tbsp. inulin for 1/2 gallon of milk plus 1/2 cup of HWC.
PM me on FB if you want to discuss this more. I’m afraid we might be boring the other folks in this thread.
Is the prebiotic fiber consumed by the probiotic bacteria? I have tried adding prebiotic fiber, in several different forms, to my diet and it has irritated my sensitive intestines. I wonder if I could tolerate this? I am following the Listen to Your Gut protocol and it warns not to consume prebiotic fiber if you have intestinal issues like mine.
Debbie Hollish wrote: «Is the prebiotic fiber consumed by the probiotic bacteria?»
Yes, but likely less so in short ferments, and more so in longer ferments. In the Wheat Belly / Undoctored program context, however, is doesn’t very much matter, as the prebiotic is considered beneficial, and the small amount that might be left unfermented in a portion of yogurt would make no real contribution to the 20 grams/day we deliberately endeavor to consume.
In a well matured batch of this yogurt, there is expected to be ample probiotic, and minimal prebiotic.
re: «I have tried adding prebiotic fiber, in several different forms, to my diet and it has irritated my sensitive intestines.»
Such a response is a presumptive test for SIBO: The Prebiotic Fiber Test
An adverse response says almost nothing about any given prebiotic fiber. It says a lot, however, about the microbes you harbor. They do not need to be considered permanent guests.
re: «I am following the Listen to Your Gut protocol and it warns not to consume prebiotic fiber if you have intestinal issues like mine.»
The WB / Undoctored program also advises avoidance of prebiotic fiber with unresolved SIBO. For many people, just following the gut flora cultivation strategy in Wheat Belly Total Health, or the newer Undoctored, can clear it up.
If not, the Undoctored Inner Circle site has a protocol for identifying and dealing with SIBO, as well as reducing the risk of recurrence. This is recent, still being enhanced, and is not in any of the books to date.
Whether Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA 6475 yogurt has specific benefit in unresolved SIBO is not yet clear.
I’m not at all familiar with the details of LYTG, so can’t say if it has overlooked any opportunities already incorporated into the Undoctored program.
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You wrote:
“The yogurt is thick, delicious, and contains a marked increase in bacterial counts, though I have not yet performed a formal count.”
Does this mean that you plan on having your yogurt analyzed at some point for species, strains, and CFUs? I recall that Dr. Mercola had this done with some of his sauerkraut and the lab found that it contained 10 trillion CFUs per 4-6 ounces (if memory serves correctly). I would love to see an analysis of this yogurt. Some claim that 24 hour yogurt can contain ~700 billion CFUs per cup.
David wrote: «Does this mean that you plan on having your yogurt analyzed at some point for species, strains, and CFUs?»
Related questions are: how many generations can be fermented from an initial batch? At what point do stray environmental microbes spoil the culture? What strategies are needed to maximize the yield from a box of Gastrus®?
An investigation has been opened on gaining insight on these questions. I don’t know how soon we’ll know something.
In the meantime, we have the empirical observations that, in consideration of published Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA 6475 clinical effects:
• Merely ingesting the tablets appears to have subclinical effects in adults.
• Making yogurt generates a product with overt effects in adults.
• The effects are sustained across yogurt generations, with no added Gastrus®.
CFU amplification is the leading explanation for the generational capability. The effects could be due to that, and/or the fact that yogurt making also results in exogenous production of strain metabolites.
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This method seems to skip the normal yogurt making step of heating the base (mile, cream, half and half) to 185°F. Is that true?
Thanks
Ken wrote: «This method seems to skip the normal yogurt making step of heating the base (mile, cream, half and half) to 185°F.»
Run that cycle unless you know you don’t need to. Make sure the temp has fallen below 115°F/46°C before adding the culture.
The recipe posted does not include a lot of lore that first time yogurt makers might need. I’ll probably put together an FAQ on it in a couple of weeks.
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I always heat the 1/2 gallon of milk (plus 1/2 cup of HWC), to 180F and hold it there for 10 minutes, before letting it cool down to 110F and fermenting for 14 hours.
I wonder if this is making me constipated. Has anyone noticed this effect?
Susan wrote: «I wonder if this is making me constipated.»
If it is, it’s the first report I’ve seen on either blog or the subscription forum.
In general, the opposite would be expected, but that’s in the context of a complete Undoctored or 2014+ Wheat Belly diet and lifestyle. Elements that might have the most bearing on gut motility would include: grain free, magnesium restoration, daily prebiotic fiber, and ample hydration. Any unresolved dysbiosis might complicate guesses here, too.
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I have been on a strict No Grain and No Sugar diet for more than 3 years and recently after readying your posts on yogurt, started making my own yogurt adding Lact. Reuteri ATCC PTA 6375.
Both my wife and I have noticed our hair getting thicker which is great but a blood test showed my red blood cells a bit out of whack. Neutrophil % low at 32.4 and Lymphocyte% high at 55.6.
A little research showed that lymphocyte numbers are increased following oral delivery of Lactobacillus caseu which is evidence that probiotic stimulation can increase the size of lymphocyte populations.
My question is, what does this mean and is it good or bad?
Steve Kludt wrote: «I have been on a strict No Grain and No Sugar diet for more than 3 years…»
Any particular named program? Wheat Belly / Undoctored covers a lot more than NGNS (or NSNG, which seems to be the more common abbreviation, and is strongly identified with Vinnie Tortorich).
re: «Both my wife and I have noticed our hair getting thicker…»
Neat. Thanks for the report, and thanks also for bringing up…
re: «…but a blood test showed my red blood cells a bit out of whack. Neutrophil % low at 32.4 and Lymphocyte% high at 55.6.»
Just yours, or was only yours tested? And how do those readings compare to any you had before trying the yogurt? Were any other inflammation, immune or infection markers checked?
Anyway, it probably won’t surprise you that yours is the first such report that’s come to my attention, and without a clear picture of the overall dietary context, I probably can’t speculate usefully. A quick look turned up nothing in connection with the Biogaia® Gastrus® product per se.
re: «A little research showed that lymphocyte numbers are increased following oral delivery of Lactobacillus caseu which is evidence that probiotic stimulation can increase the size of lymphocyte populations.»
And that’s part of why I asked about the dietary context. Does your NGNS program include any particular strategy for gut flora cultivation (target daily prebiotic fiber intake, periodic probiotics)?
re: «My question is, what does this mean and is it good or bad?»
Insufficient data so far, and I haven’t studied lymphocytes at all (it’s not a marker we routinely track in the program). If we can develop some context here, I can at least make informed inquiries.
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Your hair is getting thicker after a month or two? Hair grows maybe 1/2 inch monthly. How could you notice thicker hair after so short a time? Maybe if you had a buzz cut, I could see it, but if you have longer hair, I would think it would be a few months before you would notice anything.?
When a company patents a product doesn’t that mean they had to change its original structure in some way in order to get the patent? If my statement is correct.. which I am not sure if it is.. then isn’t this a man made product from a lab and not the actual bacteria as it would occur in nature? I want to use it because of the benefits associated with it but I am not sure if I should.
Also wondering if I put a particular strain of bacteria into my gut in a high count could that perhaps have consequences on the other bacteria in my gut since they have a relationship? Any information in this regards would be helpful…Thanks
Kelly
kelly wrote: «When a company patents a product doesn’t that mean they had to change its original structure in some way in order to get the patent?»
For any IP lawyers who care to opine, here’s the patent for ATCC PTA-6475: US7344867B2, and here are the broad claims:
1. A biologically pure culture of Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA-6475.
2. A method for treating inflammation in inflammatory bowel disease, comprising orally administering gastronintestinally to a human conditioned medium from a culture according to claim 1.
It has another 10 years to run.
re: «Also wondering if I put a particular strain of bacteria into my gut in a high count could that perhaps have consequences on the other bacteria in my gut since they have a relationship?»
That’s actually a main goal of using any deliberate probiotic — displacing adverse species and strains.
In the particular case of the two strains of Lactobacillus reuteri in Biogaia® Gastrus®, it appears that they do not colonize the human gut on an extended basis, which is why Biogaia has a product suitable for repeat sales, and why we are making yogurt from it on a regular basis.
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“In the particular case of the two strains of Lactobacillus reuteri in Biogaia® Gastrus®, it appears that they do not colonize the human gut on an extended basis”
In order to maintain the two strains on an extended basis, how often must the “dosages” of the L. reuteri yogurt be taken? Would a tablespoon a day do it?
Robert Rominger wrote: «In order to maintain the two strains on an extended basis, how often must the “dosages” of the L. reuteri yogurt be taken? Would a tablespoon a day do it?»
Not clear. It’s also not fully clear, in the case of this yogurt, whether the benefits seen are primarily due to CFU amplification, exogenous metabolite generation, or some combination thereof; and then, what an ideal portion size is.
I really need to dig up that paper on half-life, but my guess is that to maintain a gut population of these L.reuteri strains would require ingestion perhaps as often as every 4 days.
re: «Would a tablespoon a day do it?»
Where just having some L.reuteri around is the key, I would think so.
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Wow. I love this stuff. I’m ingesting a lot more than a tbsp. per day. ;-)
I read that you should not do. Greek yogurt because the whey contains the good bacteria. Thanks for any thoughts you might have.
Katherine wrote: «I read that you should not do. Greek yogurt because the whey contains the good bacteria.»
Could you post a link for that? All the hits I got were about the whey, which is usually discarded, having potential as a biofuel. That doesn’t seem to be the question you are asking about.☺
It is the case that in making this recipe (with a dairy base), the resulting product (in my household’s experience so far) stratifies into about 50% yogurt and 50% whey (and the whey has the consistency of cream). We’ve been consuming both.
Whether to consume the whey is your call. If making the yogurt on some other base, like coconut milk, there would of course be no whey.
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“It is the case that in making this recipe (with a dairy base), the resulting product (in my household’s experience so far) stratifies into about 50% yogurt and 50% whey (and the whey has the consistency of cream). We’ve been consuming both.”
I agree with the 50:50 ratio. The whey consistency here is more like that of skim milk. We have been consuming both as well.
Thanks for getting back to me! I read about the whey and bacteria on a “Making Yougurt at Home” website, and it was contained in a reader’s comment, so there is no real link. I was just curious to see if you knew anything about that.
Since reading about the wonders of homemade yogurt on this site, I have been doing a lot of it at home. Aside from one notable incident where I put a towel around my yogurt in the oven and then turned it on and forgot about it (do not do this, folks!) I have had a lot of success. I just wondered if I was losing the good stuff when I drain it
to make it thicker.
Thanks again for your response.
What are the pros and cons of eating/drinking the whey?
Robert Rominger wrote: «What are the pros and cons of eating/drinking the whey?»
Pro: it likely contains just as much probiotic and metabolite content as the yogurt.
Con: It’s insulinotrophic (provokes insulin). It might contain more residual casein than the yogurt fraction.
These are two of the potential issues with dairy (specifically random North American bovine diary, presumed to be casein beta A1, which is provocative to some people). The other two are lactose (which is expected to be nil, due to the fermentation), and hormones (including natural, and on that, I’ve no guesses as to fermentation effects). In the WB/Undoctored program, dairy elimination is one of the top options for addressing a weight loss stall.
So, if one elects to avoid whey, what then to do with that fraction (assuming you get stratification, which some people don’t). See response to a separate question of yours on this thread.
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Can you freeze the starter batch of yogurt so it won’t get weak after a week or two in the fridge?
Robert Rominger wrote: «Can you freeze the starter batch of yogurt so it won’t get weak after a week or two in the fridge?»
We have, just today, one report of “yes” on the Undoctored blog.
As it happens, I just had a batch finish this morning — our last dairy batch for a while, and had not planned to consume the whey fraction. So I poured it off into a couple of ice cube trays, froze it, and plan to use it as starter for some coconut milk yogurt experiments. We have extra Gastrus® standing by, just in case.
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There’s so much talk about yogurt being good for you but I have always found it makes me sick. Upset stomach,gas, etc. no other dairy products do this to me, no other food at all does this to me. Is it possible to be allergic to yogurt but not other dairy?
Joan wrote: «There’s so much talk about yogurt being good for you but I have always found it makes me sick.»
There’s more than one potential issue to untangle here:
• what yogurt?
• how prompt is the reaction?
• do you get this reaction with any other live-culture fermented foods, like sauerkraut, kimchi, Bubbies pickles, kefir, kombucha, etc?
If your experience is based on commercial yogurts, that’s one thing. If it’s based on trying this particular yogurt, that’s a completely different situation.
Commercial yogurts are usually loaded with residual sugars (not just lactose), and may or may not have live cultures by the time you consume them. They of course can also contain all sorts of other junk – preservatives, colorants, flavorants, artificial sweeteners, any of which would be suspect in a reaction.
And then, a prompt reaction tends to suggest that you’ve got a dysbiosis. It could mean that you have adverse microbes higher in the intestinal tract than they are supposed to be, and they aren’t happy about what you’re eating.
re: «Is it possible to be allergic to yogurt but not other dairy?»
I doubt anyone can guess usefully on that without more info. In any case a reaction, to the yogurt under discussion above, probably wouldn’t be a yogurt allergy per se. It might be some reaction, not by your immune system, but by your current uninvited gut flora, to either the live culture and/or their metabolites.
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Thanks Bob. It’s yogurt of any kind, in any combination. Frozen, sauces, any and all combinations, in any recipes, all brands.
I do eat sauerkraut and pickles with no reactions, love those. Kimchi doesn’t give me any reactions in my stomach, but I don’t like the taste, it’s too spicy hot for me.
It’s just the yogurt. It’s pretty quick, within the hour, sometimes even before I finish eating it. I do my best to just avoid it. My mother had the same reaction and so does my daughter. Of course I’ve never gotten an answer from a doctor about it. They just say to avoid yogurt. But it sound so beneficial that it makes me wonder what to do.
Thanks again!
Joan wrote: «It’s yogurt of any kind, in any combination.»
I’m still not clear if that includes the L.reuteri yogurt under discussion here.
re: «I do eat sauerkraut and pickles with no reactions, love those.»
And you’re sure that these are live-culture fermented foods? Many commercial products aren’t, because terminating the growth extends shelf life and avoids refrigeration.
re: «It’s just the yogurt. It’s pretty quick, within the hour,…»
Very odd. What separates a basic yogurt from plain milk and cream would be appear to be just the microbes and their metabolites (including short chain fatty acids). Which of these would be the suspect, if not both, isn’t clear. Also, I have no familiarity with how promptly reactions occur with the various common dairy intolerances (and search pulls up too many results not on topic).
re: «But it sound so beneficial that it makes me wonder what to do.»
I might suggest waiting a couple of weeks for further advice on non-dairy yogurts. I’ll be making some myself. You could start with a coconut milk based yogurt, and if there’s no adverse reaction, use some starter saved from it for a dairy version trial.
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Thanks, I will wait and keep reading.
I’ve made this with coconut mild (full fat in the can). First batch was thin but I consumed it just fine usually a few tablespoons in the morning. The second batch I tolerated just fine also until about half way through it and then I started getting bloating and gas pains. What happened? I didn’t notice this at first.
Should I start over with a new batch? Could it have gotten stronger?
Linda
Linda S. wrote: «I’ve made this with coconut milk (full fat in the can).»
Since I’m about to try this, I’d like to see what’s to be learned here.
What brand/product of coconut milk did you use? We’re going to try Native Forest Simple.
What did you use, if anything, for carbohydrate substrate, since coconut milk doesn’t contain much sugar?
What was the starter?
How long was the ferment, and for extra credit, what temperature?
re: «…and then I started getting bloating and gas pains.»
Although this could indicate some problem with the yogurt, it can also be a sign of dysbiosis. Would it be safe to assume you’ve seen no previous such indications (such as via the Prebiotic Fiber Test)?
re: «Could it have gotten stronger?»
Assuming the finished product was refrigerated, it seems unlikely.
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When I began I used Whole Foods coconut milk but it had carrageenan in it which may be why the finished product was thin. I used 1 tablespoon of sugar also. I tried to keep it at 110 degrees but at that point I was using a small rice cooker and using the keep warm setting on it. I had to let it go for 2 days to try to get it to thicken but it remained very thin but tasted good.
For the second batch I bought a yogurt maker because I knew the temperature would be controlled. I only let it go 1 day and the taste was actually stronger although it was still rather thin.
I hope this helps you! I’m going to make another batch with Trader Joe’s coconut milk that doesn’t have the food additive in it and see if that makes a difference.
A friend referred me to this blog and I’ve practiced making 1/2 gallon of yogurt. I made mine with a quart of full cream and a quart of 1/2 & 1/2. I made it in a Crockpot and woke a 4AM to put the finished product into the fridge. I just tasted it, it is fabulous. It reminded me of true “Greek yogurt” that I’ve eaten in the past for breakfast in Mykonos Greece. It was so thick that it was almost pointless to strain it for the excess whey. Yet I’m in the process of straining it now.
I wanted to practice first time without the Biogaia Gastrus tablets as they are expensive. This has been a success for me so far.
Questions
1) Has anyone on this blog so far experienced the Biogaia Gastrus tablets and their “Complete shut-down of appetite, an “anorexigenic” effect”?
I don’t mind making expensive yogurts but if the home made yogurt doesn’t work why bother?
2) I’ve read elsewhere on the Internet that these Biogaia Gastrus tablets were not designed to make yogurts..
https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/Tx2ZRL71EFP1BZV/ref=ask_ql_ql_al_hza
Have I got something wrong here?
John M wrote: «I wanted to practice first time without the Biogaia Gastrus tablets as they are expensive.»
What did you use for starter culture?
re: «I wanted to practice first time without the Biogaia Gastrus tablets as they are expensive.»
Sound plan. Once rolling, the economies improve a bit, as starter can be saved off (and apparently frozen). I saved off, cubed and froze the whey from my most recent batch, and plan to try using it as starter sometime next week.
re: «Has anyone on this blog so far experienced the Biogaia Gastrus tablets…»
Valid question, but to set expectations, I doubt it. Dr. Davis has already reported that he tried the tablet directly with no apparent result (vs. consuming the yogurt, with prominent effect).
re: «…these Biogaia Gastrus tablets were not designed to make yogurts.»
They are indeed not. It’s mere serendipity that they do, as many unit-dose probiotics make less than ideal yogurt cultures.
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Bob
Thanks for your reply. I used full fat 4% whole fat “Chobani” Greek yogurt as my starter. I had some of this yogurt, just now and this full fat 1/2 & 1/2 + full fat cream was sumptuous! I steeped whole oats in this quart of yogurt overnight to give (me) a resistant starch + I added blueberries when I was plating this for breakfast.
I have just put the whey into ice cube trays to save the cultures for the next time I’m making yogurt. I’m really pleased with Chobani for putting the price up as it forced me to make a better product here at home. I’ll give it a few days and hopefully, someone else may come onto this blog and tell us about how they made Biogaia Gastrus yogurt
I am particularly interested in the “anorexigenic” effect”..
You stated, “I steeped whole oats in this quart of yogurt…”
Bad move. The deleterious effects of oats are nearly as bad as wheat. Adding any grains to the yogurt counteracts the benefits that might have been derived from the L.Reuteri 6475.
Robert
Thank you for your 2 cents worth. I have read that resistant starches are where when consumed the oats behave as fiber and not a carbohydrate. You may well be right. I bow to your better knowledge.
John M stated, “Thank you for your 2 cents worth. I have read that resistant starches are where when consumed the oats behave as fiber and not a carbohydrate. You may well be right. …”
Yes, I’m right (in this case, at least) because all I am doing is relaying one of the basic fundamentals of Wheat Belly. Grains, of any kind, in any form, are harmful. Just ask the Doc. This is not a fiber or carb or resistant starch issue; it is an issue of all the harmful substances contained in any grain, oats included. Putting oats in this yogurt would be analogous to putting a hemlock dressing on your salad.
John M wrote: «I used full fat 4% whole fat “Chobani” Greek yogurt as my starter.»
That’s probably a fine starter for a practice run.
When you try the L.reuteri yogurt, the goal is to have only the strains found in the Gastrus® tablets.
And because people have done it by mistake, don’t use a commercial yogurt as the substrate.
re: «I steeped whole oats in this quart of yogurt overnight to give (me) a resistant starch…»
As Robert has already pointed out, oats are strongly discouraged on this program. Their avenin protein is an analog of wheat gliadin. Oats are commonly cross-contaminated with actual wheat gluten (due to shared harvesting, transport, storage and processing equipment). And 70% or so of US oats are also contaminated with Ochratoxin A. The usual glycemic impact of oats would be blunted here, but the other hazards remain.
If you don’t want to use inulin, unmodified potato starch works. I’ve been using it.
re: «I’m really pleased with Chobani for putting the price up as it forced me to make a better product here at home.»
If you like you Chobani, you can keep your Chobani.☺ Its cultures make a fine yogurt, but a different animal from the experiment we’re running here.
re: «…someone else may come onto this blog and tell us about how they made Biogaia Gastrus yogurt…»
We’ve got lots of folks experimenting, and reporting both in the blogs and on the subscription forum. I’m keeping a log of all the traffic, and may generate an FAQ.
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Bob,
Thanks for your input, I tried making yogurt previously and it didn’t seem to work. I’ve found that with full fat cream and 1/2 & 1/2 I have successfully made yogurt. As a result of this experiment, I’ve at least learned how to make a yogurt. The yogurt I’ve made now embraces what Dr Jason Fung has been preaching that eating fat does not make one fat. Which is why I’ve opted to make a full cream/ 1/2&1/2 fat yogurt in the first place.
The Biogaia Gastrus tablets aren’t exactly given away at $27-$30/ box. The “anorexigenic” effect of a yogurt made with the “Gastrus” strain of L. Reuteri cultures is a very bold statement. Effectively, if true, what is being ultimately suggested here is that a home made yogurt can fix a great deal of the obesity in the entire world! That’s a heck of a statement!
I thank everyone for their input.
One more question Bob, so if one uses the Gastrus tablets then 10 crushed into a powder now becomes the starter culture for this special type of yogurt? Am I completely correct in that assumption?
John M wrote: «…now embraces what Dr Jason Fung has been preaching that eating fat does not make one fat.»
That’s been a core message of this program since before it was Wheat Belly.
re: «The Biogaia Gastrus tablets aren’t exactly given away at $27-$30/ box.»
True enough, but run the numbers on how many batches can be made from 30 tablets, if using saved-off yogurt as starter. It appears that even a modest portion of saved starter has a massive number of CFUs. If it takes 10 tabs for batch #1, and we use a modest saved-off portion as starter for all subsequent batches, perhaps adding 1 tab every 5th batch, we might get a year’s worth of yogurt for that $30. (And, to be sure, we really don’t know what the optimal generational strategies are yet.)
re: «…very bold statement.»
If almost any of the MIT rodent results present in humans, it’s a pretty dramatic development. Based on the traffic I’ve seen so far, not everyone gets the anorexigenic effect, but in those that do, it’s unmistakable. Hair and skin effects are reported anecdotally. Bone is going to take some time. I’m a bit concerned that we could see a BGY fad explode, resulting in severe shortages of this probiotic (and who knows what response from Biogaia).
re: «…the Gastrus tablets then 10 crushed into a powder now becomes the starter culture for this special type of yogurt?»
For the first batch, which probably needs to be one gallon or less (due to the relatively low CFU counts in these tablets). Saved yogurt can be used as starter for the next batch. I’ve been adding one crushed tablet every 5th batch, but am not sure that’s necessary.
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Additionally, don’t use any of the other grains. Corn’s version of wheat’s gliadin protein is called zein, and rice’s is orzenin. These are just the protein parts of each grain’s gluten. Gluten, however, is not the major danger from any grain,… it is all the other nasty stuff in each grain that harms the body in so many ways.
Sorry for the rant — I used way too many words here,… it is much simpler to just say DON’T INGEST ANY GRAINS,…. EVER.
John M stated, “you’ve made a few batches of yogurt here have you experienced the “anorexigenic effect” after eating this specific L Reuteri strain of Biogaia Gastrus yogurt?”
I have not noticed any increase in the anorexigenic effect that I noticed back in Oct 2011 when I started the grain-free added-sugar-free lifestyle. At that time I noticed a significant decrease in appetite that has benefited me all these years,… so I am not all that surprised to notice much more of a decrease.
to NOT notice more of a decrease
(sorry for the typo)
The talk is letting it sit in an oven with temps of 110 degrees. can I use the same technique but use an Instant Pot with the yogurt feature or a yogurt maker? Thanks for your wonderful help
Yes, but some of those pots are not calibrated very accurately. I recommend you fill it up with water, let it sit for 1/2 an hour, and measure the temp of the water. You want to verify it does not exceed 110F by more than a couple degrees because it ruins the fermentation.
I say this because many years ago I got my Dad a yogurt maker that didn’t work very well. It simply didn’t make much yogurt. The product was about 10% yogurt and 90% liquid. We got a couple of candy thermometers to measure the temps and discovered his yogurtmaker, when set on 110F, was keeping the mixture at 120-125.
You will also want to verify setting it on 180F actually holds it at 180F.
If the settings are inaccurate, you can probably still use it. Just move the knob to some position that holds 110F and put a mark there. Same for 180F.
When I said, “I recommend you fill it up with water, let it sit for 1/2 an hour, and measure the temp of the water.”
What I should have said was, “I recommend you fill it up with water, set it on 110F, let it sit for 1/2 an hour, and measure the temp of the water.”
How long is it safe to keep the yogurt in the fridge to eat? I made a batch and since I’m the only one who is eating it, it might last several days.
I don’t if there are any rules for this, but I have made a few batches that were a little over a gallon. It lasted over 10 days with just my ex-girlfriend and me eating it. I noticed no “issues” with keeping it that long.
Hi Robert,
I am going to attempt making the yogurt today, I want to use my stove light the way you do it.
I was wondering if you could put a step by step on how you make your yogurt.
I see you make it in a regular pot from your pots & pan so you seem to heat your dairy (to 180?) then bring it down to 110, stir in the The Biogaia Gastrus tablets and inuline then put the pot in the oven with the light turn on an just let it go for 24h? Do you take some out after 12 hr to keep as your starter or do you just set some aside once it’s done?
Thanks for your help :)
Here’s the system I use. It is based on the Doc’s comments, tweaked a bit for what works best for my setup.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Healthy%20Stuff/yogurt%2001c_zpsrbaaz8op.jpg
Thank you for the info Robert :)
One last question do you put the pot that you showed us in the picture of your yogurt in the stove? An do you leave the lid on?
Jo-Anne stated: “One last question do you put the pot that you showed us in the picture of your yogurt in the stove? An do you leave the lid on?”
That is two questions!! ;-)
Yes, I put that pot with the yogurt-to-be mixture (a little over a 1/2 gallon cooled to 110F) in the stove.
—- I haven’t tried using the lid. I don’t know what effect that would have, if any. I do cover the pot, though, with one thin layer of saran wrap.
—- I started doing that (instead of the lid) because the lid adds almost 2″ of height to the pot, creating some clearance issues in my fridge.
Erika wrote: «How long is it safe to keep the yogurt in the fridge to eat?»
The expiry date on commercial yogurts is typically a month (but that’s unopened).
Once opened, they are considered safe to consume for one to two weeks, with some degradation in sensory quality after the first week.
You can freeze portions for a month or two, with some shift in texture.
Saving some as starter is a different matter, as sensory qualities don’t matter, just viability of the L.reuteri bacteria.
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My yogurt maker instructions say 8-10 hours is good, with 12 hours being the most you would need.
I don’t understand the 24-36 hours mentioned here. What am I missing?
I tried to make a quart following directions on this site and after 24 hours it separated into a LOT of whey with a little not-great-looking yogurt on top.
Dee wrote: «My yogurt maker instructions say 8-10 hours is good, with 12 hours being the most you would need.»
What presumptions are those instructions making about cultures, and substrates (liquid base, and any added carbohydrate)? The on-going experiment being discussed on these pages is for specific strains of Lactobacillus reuteri, perhaps never previously used for yogurt making.
re: «I don’t understand the 24-36 hours mentioned here.»
This is just based on actual results from people trying this, and reporting on both blogs and in the subscription forum. I’ve been using between 24 and 36 hours, with some pulled off at 12 for use as future starter. I’m about to try a coconut milk based run, and guess that it will take a full 36 hours.
These strains may just be slower metabolizers.
re: «…after 24 hours…»
What did it look like before that (if known)?
re: «…separated into a LOT of whey with a little not-great-looking yogurt on top.»
If you want to explore that:
. what yogurt machine, nominal temp, temp regulation?
. what brand of milk, cream or half&half?
. did you run a pasteurization cycle?
. and if so, what was the temp when the culture was added?
. what added carbohydrate (e.g. inulin, sugar)?
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My Luvele yogurt maker instructions make no reference to cultures and substrates.
Okay…so it’s specifically the L. reuteri that needs the longer hours. Got it. 24-36.
Didn’t get a clear look during the machine cycle as the outside cover was pretty heavy with condensation.
Luvele machine, set at 40 degrees Celsius. [options are 36, 38 or 40 C]
One quart Organic Valley whole milk, pasteurized + homogenized. [not UHT]
I heated to 180 degrees F, cooled to 110 degrees F.
Then added small amount of cooled milk to slurry of 10 crushed Bio gastrus tabs with 1 Tbsp Inulin.
Gently stirred that into rest of milk. Was 108-109 at that point.
Put in machine…pulled off ¼ cup after 12 hours [kinda resembled slightly thickened milk at that point] and let the machine go for another 12 hours. Then refrigerated.
Dee wrote: «Didn’t get a clear look during the machine cycle as the outside cover was pretty heavy with condensation.»
That’s one advantage to pulling starter about halfway through. You can check progress.
re: «Luvele machine, set at 40 degrees Celsius.»
Sounds ideal.
re: «One quart Organic Valley whole milk, pasteurized + homogenized. [not UHT]»
Just 1 qt. total base? And, no cream?
Also, does that OV milk have anything in it other than milk? I see web pages for the UHT variant with Vitamin D added (and it’s not at all clear to me why they would do that, nor am I sure it doesn’t matter).
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I use 12-14 hours at a very steady 100F to make a firm and very tasty yogurt using 8 crushed tablet in a 1/2 gallon of whole milk plus 1/2 cup of HWC.
Sorry. I meant 110F, not 100F.
Robert Rominger
As it seems you’ve made a few batches of yogurt here have you experienced the “anorexigenic effect” after eating this specific L Reuteri strain of Biogaia Gastrus yogurt?
Here is a pic of some the yogurt sliced just to illustrate the consistency after 12-14 hours.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Healthy%20Stuff/yogurt%20on%20red%20plate%2001a_zpsnoe8ktvj.jpg
That looks pretty darned delicious, Robert!
Can you suggest some starting details for me? My machine can’t handle the quantities you’ve had success with. Should I try 1 qt whole milk + ¼ cup HWC + ¼ cup starter from previous batch + 1 Tbsp Inulin + 1 tab Gastrus? And still do 14 hours. Or what else would you suggest?
Do you get a lot of whey? Do you stir it in, or pour it all off?
Dee stated, “That looks pretty darned delicious, Robert!
Can you suggest some starting details for me? My machine can’t handle the quantities you’ve had success with. Should I try 1 qt whole milk + ¼ cup HWC + ¼ cup starter from previous batch + 1 Tbsp Inulin + 1 tab Gastrus? And still do 14 hours. Or what else would you suggest?
Do you get a lot of whey? Do you stir it in, or pour it all off?”
Those proportions look correct to me, but I’m no expert at this.
Make sure the inulin and the crushed-to-a-fine-powder Gastrus tablet are dissolved completely before you add them to the 110F milk/HWC mixture. It takes a bit of stirring/mixing to get it all dissolved. I am experimenting with using a larger amount of milk pulled from the pasteurized mixture in a mug and then using a hand blender stuck down in the mug to forcefully dissolve the inulin/gastrus powder into the milk.
I do get a lot of whey,…. not much at first, but then as the pot cools and the yogurt sits in the fridge, they whey tends to drain from the main body of the yogurt. I use the whey,… either stirring in some when I pull out a serving of yogurt, or putting some in icecube trays to use as starter later. Here’s a pic of what a mostly-consumed pot looks like after it has been sitting in the fridge for 4 or 5 days.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Healthy%20Stuff/yogurt%20with%20whey%20in%20pan%2001a_zps1kjiuumr.jpg
Good luck! Keep us posted.
Wow! Yours looks good. Mine comes out of the yougurt machine severely separated into curds and clear watery yellow whey. After sitting in the refrigerator, the curds dry out and become a semi-solid mass.
Just trued some and no amount of mixing could get rids of the clumps (curds). Kinda “cheesy” tasting. Didn’t enjoy it, at all.
And yes, I take a long time to make sure all the Inulin/Gastrus is mixed thoroughly.
Should I try and stop the yogurt maker before I see that clear separation? Is that the goal? I do check it, but I haven’t known what I’m looking for…
Just looked at the batch of yogurt [?] that’s been in the fridge for 8 hours. I poured-off 2-½ cups whey [originally started with one quart of whole milk]. The rest was a semi-solid disk of small-curd cheese-like substance. It initially stayed in the container when inverted, so I had to break it up and scoop it out. Then is was a dish of mushy small-curd cheese-like…something.
It smelled extremely tangy and cheesy. All declined an invitation to taste. Including me.
I have started a second batch in the yogurt maker with the ¼ cup I drew off at the 12 hour mark. Fingers crossed.
Sorry–my additional info crossed your reply.
Yes, just one qt total base. No cream. Sometimes impossible to find organic cream where I live.
As far as OV–it’s not my first choice, but if I buy a gallon I can get the non-UHT. Won’t buy UHT anything. Not sure if there’s anything in it–nothing on the label. OV uses milk from so many different sources…
Dr. Davis writes:
“Can we improve on taste/texture/bacterial counts by altering fermentation temperature, choice of prebiotic, or other conditions?”
According to this data, L. reuteri ATCC PTA 6475 ferments prebiotic fructans very poorly: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3084715/.
See figure S7 of that research (the darker bar is the 6475 strain). It would appear as though other substrates, such as glucose, galactooligosaccharides (GOS), and others would be better choices than inulin or FOS.
I started a half-gallon batch of the Gastrus yogurt last night. I added 2 tablespoons of inulin and 1 tsp of XOS, but then I decided on a whim to add a tablespoon of dextrose (glucose). That got me thinking more about fermentation substrate and I found the above research this morning. Next time I might try using 1 tablespoon of glucose and 1 tablespoon of GOS (Klaire Labs Galactomune).
David wrote: «See figure S7 of that research…»
Yep. That data has been referenced in other yogurt threads here, and discussed on the subscription forum.
re: «…would be better choices than inulin or FOS.»
That (“better”) would depend on the objectives. Are the benefits due to:
• CFU amplification, and/or
• the exogenous metabolites, and if so…
• do the metabolites vary by substrate, and perhaps time?
re: «…I decided on a whim to add a tablespoon of dextrose (glucose).»
Please do report the results, success or fail.
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I keep getting something cheesy instead of yogurt. I have followed the directions and am using a yogurt maker so I don’t think temperature is the problem. Any thoughts on what I’m doing wrong?
I tried my first attempt yesterday using an Instant Pot yogurt function. I should be clear here that I am a total newbie to yogurt making and even yogurt consumption. But what I came up with this morning really didn’t look like the right thing!!!
One thing that is confusing here is that it seems like there is one set of instructions above written by Dr. Davis and then other comments below and links to other posts with more instructions, so I’m not certain what to follow. For instance, the original post cites 1 quart of half-and-half and 1 T of inulin with 10 tablets, but posts below have much higher quantities of liquid with 10 tablets. The original post doesn’t mention anything going up to 180 degrees – is that step not necessary at all?
Here’s what I did:
* I quart of organic half-and-half (Stonyfield Farms…seems to be ultra pasturized, could that be the problem?)
* 1T of inulin
* 10 crushed BioGaia Gastrus tablets
I crushed the tablets and combined with inulin, then set aside.
I put the liquid in my Instant Pot and set it on the “Boil” setting for Yogurt. Measured temp after 1 boil; it was steaming, but my meat thermometer read only about 140. Did 4 more boil cycles but temp only raised to about 160 at highest. Having read things that suggested that a full boil cycle might not be necessary, I allowed it to cool down to 110, removed about a quarter cup of the liquid, and mixed it into a slurry with the inulin and powdered tablets.
I poured the slurry into the rest of the liquid, measured the temp, and it had gone down to about 90, so I put it on the Instant Pot yogurt Boil setting again until the temp raised up to 110. Then I unplugged the IP, plugged it back in, and ran the Yogurt setting on Normal for 8 hours, then another 5 hours on Normal again.
What I woke up to this morning was a mush that was covered in a yellow top layer, with more solid-ish substance in the middle but very, very runny and watery around the sides. It smelled wretched.
Is it normal to have a YELLOW top layer? I freaked out that maybe the boil cycle hadn’t killed off some other microbe that had been allowed to multiply rampantly or something. (Or do I need to worry about boiling the container in which I make the slurry?)
Anyway, it smelled and looked so foul that I didn’t dare even try it; it went into the garbage. I still have 29 tablets left and I’d like to try again, but I’m a bit gun-shy — the tablets, inulin, and half and half were all an expensive failed experiment! Is it normal for homemade yogurt to smell so bad when first made? And is all that runny liquid normal? Should I have left it going for another 12-24 hours, for 24-36 total, or was it right to pull the plug since the top was yellow and it smelled awful?
Should I have just taken 1/4 cup of this runny mushy goop and tried to make a whole new batch from that? (I didn’t save any of it.)
Sorry for all the newbie questions. This strain of probiotic sounds miraculous and I really want to try it, especially for the oxytocin effect, but this experiment was a total fail on my part.
Maura wrote: «The original post doesn’t mention anything going up to 180 degrees – is that step not necessary at all?»
That’s a pasteurization cycle, and might be optional when using base liquids (milk, cream, H&H) that are already pasteurized. We run one anyway. It’s an essential step with raw milk (like the goat milk in the batch brewing here now), and I’d recommend it for non-dairy yogurt base as well, just to eliminate any stray microbes.
If a pasteurization cycle is run, it’s important to do that before adding the culture, and indeed, to make sure that the temperature of the liquid back back down to 110°F before adding the culture (or you will kill the culture). How did you perform the cool-down? I set the inner pot into a cold water bath in the sink to cool it off rapidly. Allowing it to cool in the cooker, or even just in air, might provide an opportunity for stray microbes to invade.
re: «I poured the slurry into the rest of the liquid, measured the temp, and it had gone down to about 90, so I put it on the Instant Pot yogurt Boil setting again until the temp raised up to 110.»
Once the culture has been added, I would suggest avoiding “boil” settings on these pots. We have a different brand, but the Boil function appears to apply rapid high heat. Even though you may have been minding the temp, the bottom of that pot may have gotten hot enough to impair the culture.
re: «Then I unplugged the IP, plugged it back in, and ran the Yogurt setting on Normal for 8 hours, then another 5 hours on Normal again.»
Can this pot be set to more than 8 hours? I’ve been using 24-36 for dairy-based Gastrus® yogurt.
And our result with that is about half yogurt that is thick enough to not pass through a wire mesh strainer, and about half a creamy liquid (presumed to be whey) that does pass. The color does change a bit from the starting liquid, but is not an obvious yellow. What happens if the culture is inadvertently killed is not clear to me.
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Apparently there are several variations on how to make this yogurt.
Here is one of them.
— So far it has made two excellent batches using the “starter batch” version, and four excellent (and one not so hot) batches using the “subsequent batch” version.
— Even my current wife likes this stuff; she normally is violently opposed to anything Wheat Belly.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Healthy%20Stuff/yogurt%2001b_zpsr8ymlvfv.jpg
If that link does not work, try this one
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Healthy%20Stuff/yogurt%2001c_zpsrbaaz8op.jpg
Apparently photobucket is having “issues” today.
To Maura: If your instant pot doesn’t get it up to 180 you can set it on saute to get it to 180 but be sure to whisk it during and always right before taking the temp because it does get hotter on the bottom. The yellow liquid is maybe whey? I use an extra large coffee filter and drain it for 5-8 hours, depending on how thick you want it, reserving the whey which I add back if I want it more creamy.
Has anyone made an attempt using a non-dairy option like coconut milk that would care to share their experience? I would like to participate in this L.reuteri experiment, but strongly suspect dairy as fuel for an auto-immune response.
PaleoJoe wrote: «Has anyone made an attempt using a non-dairy option like coconut milk that would care to share their experience?»
Dr. Davis has made at least one batch, using sucrose (table sugar) as extra substrate, but I don’t know any other details about that particular recipe and process.
I’ve tried it once, and considered the result a fail, possibly due to either/both of:
1. I didn’t run a pasteurization, and got an odd 1-inch diameter growth on the top.
2. I used molasses as the added substrate.
I plan to try it again, but haven’t settled on the next recipe.
Do make sure the coconut milk contains only coconut (and perhaps water). Many of them contain emulsifiers and other stuff that can potentially interfere with fermentation.
re: «I would like to participate in this L.reuteri experiment, but strongly suspect dairy as fuel for an auto-immune response.»
Dairy reactions broadly fall into several categories:
• lactose: largely metabolized
• whey: largely fractionates and could be discarded
• casein beta A1: use bovine A2 or non-bovine milk
• hormones: seek non-medicated herd, but we are talking about nursing female animals, after all, so there’s a limit to what can be done about that
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Help! I just ruined my 3rd batch of yogurt. I used my Instant Pot Ultra, with the custom setting. The lowest it will go to is 104. I have made many batches that turned out great, so I am really disappointed. This time, I started over with 10 Bio Gaia tablets, used organic half and Inulin. The top of the yogurt grew a pink bacteria and smelled. What is causing this? Maybe my Instant Pot is malfunctioning and temp is too high now. Should I buy a Sous Vide or yogurt maker?. Any advice is so appreciated. Thank you!
Kariree05 wrote: «I just ruined my 3rd batch of yogurt.»
Here are some tips for assessing success and troubleshooting problems.
re: «I used my Instant Pot Ultra, with the custom setting. The lowest it will go to is 104.»
L.reuteri is expected to ferment at temps up to 106°F at least. So the problem is likely not due to that, per se. If you are fermenting from cold-start, in the Instant Pot pot, and it develops hot spots near the heating elements, that could cause localized die off (but would not explain the pink colonies).
re: «The top of the yogurt grew a pink bacteria and smelled.»
That is generally guessed to be a fungus, which would be some opportunistic organism from the local environment.
re: «Maybe my Instant Pot is malfunctioning and temp is too high now.»
That would be relatively easy to check with a pot of water and a digital probe thermometer
re: «Should I buy a Sous Vide or yogurt maker?»
A sous vide would likely provide a full range of target temperature controls, currently from 97-122°F for the exploratory progurts. A yogurt maker is apt to have the same myopic tunnel-vision temp range design as most of the not-so-smart-pots do.
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