My interview for Jimmy Moore’s Cholesterol Clarity

Jimmy Moore of the Livin’ La Vida Low Carb Show has posted my interview that helps launch his new book, Cholesterol Clarity.

In this interview, as in his Cholesterol Clarity book, Jimmy takes apart the arguments of the Lipid Hypothesis that have been used to justify an entire nation prescribed statin drugs. In addition to my comments, he includes the insightful commentary of Dr. John Briffa, Dr. Ronald Krauss, Dr. Malcolm Kendrick, Dr. Chris Masterjohn and others.

I posted my thoughts as a book review on the book’s Amazon page:

Cholesterol bashing at its finest
Widely-held beliefs, many of them propagated by “official” agencies like the FDA, USDA, American Heart Association, Academy of Dietetics and Nutrition, American Diabetes Association, etc., are crumbling under the scrutiny of informed people uninfluenced by the pharmaceutical industry, agribusiness, or the excessive profiteering ways of modern “healthcare.”

In Cholesterol Clarity, Jimmy Moore, along with the help of a couple of dozen other vocal critics of the Lipid Hypothesis, systematically take apart the flawed logic often used to justify a $23 billion per year statin drug industry. He exposes the overly-simplistic thinking and the “research” used to prop up this example of how far wrong medical care can go when richly funded. Jimmy shows how the fiction that “cholesterol causes heart disease” belongs with other fairy tales like “Cut your fat and saturated fat for heart health” and “Fat makes you fat.”

We live in a time when the messages in health have been distorted by bad science and biases introduced by corporate interests that stand to gain from a campaign of half-truths. In his characteristically genuine and straightforward style, Jimmy helps the reader understand how to navigate the real arguments behind heart disease risk unemcumbered by self-serving financial interests.

High cholesterol causes heart disease, cut your fat and saturated fat, a calorie is a calorie, everything in moderation, eat more “healthy whole grains” . . . the fairy tales of the 21st century!

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Comments & Feedback...

  1. Neicee

    I tried listening to the presentation earlier today but about 17 minutes into it I had a pop-up from paypal to contribute to the website. Don’t know if it was just something I did or hit by mistake, but it ticked me off. While I haven’t been over to Jimmy’s playroom for awhile I probably won’t for another long long time.

    • I didn’t get any pop-ups, but then I have pop-ups blocked in FireFox.

      There is a book commercial at the start, middle and end of the audio file (which runs over an hour).

      Fascinating interview, by the way – it’s clear that, with the diseased continent of Glycemia well behind us, that we are some distance from having a totally clear picture of the New World of Food, not to mention nailing down just how much variation there is in genetically pre-disposed responses to different low-carb approaches.

  2. Neicee, not sure why that happened, but there’s no requirement for payment to access the interviews on my podcast. No need to be ticked. Never costs you a dime to access the stuff in my “playroom.” :)

    • Neicee

      Thank you sir for your reply. I’ll go back sometime today and give it another try. I was so engrossed and then no sound, but a popup with the paypal nudge, and no way to back out of it. When I did, I was out of your website period. I have appreciated your broadcasts in the past but this was new. Wishing you great success with your new book.

  3. Wenchypoo

    Jimmy and Dr. Davis–while listening to the podcast, the ApoE gene was mentioned. This sounds like the gene that could tell everybody what their correct diet is! Could one or both of you go into detail about deciphering it? Which combination of letters would be for a carnivorous diet, which for a vegan diet, etc,? I’m going to see about Apo testing, and if if my insurer will allow it, I’ll need some help interpreting it–this might just be the key ingredient to fat loss I’ve been missing.

    For the past 7 years, I’ve gone from SAD to WAPF, then Paleo, then to Atkins induction, then to keto, and am now working on the Fat Fast–none have produced weight loss so far. If my genes tell me the answer may lie in intermittent fasting, I’d like to know…I NEED TO KNOW! Is there a specific name for this test for me to ask for, other than Apo-E?

    Can the two of you get together sometime and do a show about this one subject? This is extremely interesting, and may be of help for those who have so far not been helped (and hate to resort to bariatric surgery). Thanks!

    • JV

      There is a test your doctor can order for the ApoE gene, I believe Berkley Heart Lab is one of the labs that will do it – however the cost was several hundred dollars, and your insurance company may not cover it – ours wouldn’t. Another alternative is the 23andMe company which does genetic testing Their test covers many different genetic variants, which include ApoE, and last I looked the cost was $99 plus shipping. Assuming their lab does good work (and they seem to have a good reputation), it’s a much cheaper alternative. However, that said, after researching ApoE since my husband and I got our test results, I’m not sure this is the answer to your weight loss question. It impacts risk factors for Alzheimer’s and cardiovascular disease but I haven’t found anything yet about a specific diet for weight loss depending on whether you are ApoE 2,3 or 4. Dr. Davis or someone with more knowledge please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think there is still a lot to learn about the significance of these genes.

      • Dr. Davis

        Oh, boy, JV: Apo E variants the dietary modifications to suit is a lengthy conversation all of its own.

        Let me ponder where this discussion might be most relevant, as it tends to be far adrift of the topics here.

      • Sheila

        Me too! I had a vegetarian tell me that phrase also…..I didn’t think fast enough to say ‘”did you have a little steak?” You know….moderatiion” Ugh!
        Still way too happy on the wheat free to let it bother me too much :)
        Thanks again Dr. D!

      • Unterderlaterne

        Tell me about it, I hear it too often from my sweet husband, he lives by it. lol. But then he is perfect, don’t you know!

    • > The phrase ‘everything in moderation’ drives me mad.

      Tobacco? Crack? Hemlock?

      Wheat is more destructive than tobacco, and more sinister, as no one has pretended that tobacco is beneficial for some 50 years now. For anyone desiring to be rid of an addiction to tobacco, there is no “moderation”.

      Specific carbs in “moderation” cause massively more than moderate problems. Wheat is at the top of the massive list, and not just for celiacs (90% of whom are undiagnosed). For most of us, even a little (way less than moderate) wheat fouls up the gut flora, and can easily trigger other immediate and delayed reactions.

  4. Christine

    I just wanted to thank you, Dr. Davis, for doing a review of Jimmy’s book. Your support means so much! I have lived all the interviews Jimmy has done with you. I could listen to you all day!!!

  5. The podcasts with Jimmy Moore, your interviews with him, the Wheat Belly site…thank you so much, the two of you! I so appreciate what you both are doing and the message you have…the humility and sincerity and reasonableness of your approach in reaching a population that has been so literally “weighed down” by this misinformation. I was so inspired by all of this that I started my own blog! I pre-ordered the book on Amazon but it now has a delay (ordered a while ago)…and I have read the Wheat Belly book (have it on kindle as well). I saw the book in Polish so I thought I might try that next-haha! Thanks again!
    AJ

    • Culinary Adventurer

      Maggie,
      If I may, I’d like to invite you to set aside your tendencies to economize and reach deep into your pocket and buy the hardcover and support the amazing work Dr. Davis is doing!
      Or I can say it this way: Can you find it in your heart to give more to the person who is truly helping us all get healthy! This is no time to be cheap!

    • JayInKett

      Maggie, like you I have the thrifty gene. But I second Culinary Adventurer’s thoughts on this one. Buy the hardcover (A) to put some coin in Dr. Davis’ pocket, (B) to keep Wheat Belly on the radar as a popular book title, and (C) so you can have your own copy to loan to friends.
      Usually I check out a title from the public library before deciding on purchasing a book. But Wheat Belly has been so popular that I would be waiting behind 30+ others in the queue for an available copy. I took a gamble and bought the book. Took most of Dr. Davis’ advise, and lost weight and lowered my blood pressure without altering my good cholesterol profile.

    • Barbara in New Jersey

      Maggie,

      Why don’t you shop used books on Amazon for WB? You might save a few $.
      I’ve seen lots of bargains and have sent copies of the book to relatives very cheaply.
      The message of WB is compelling. Following the WB way of eating will lower your drug store bills for fewer meds and most certainly the costs of pain killers. This has been reported time after time on this blog. You will make up the $ difference in a month. Or, just read this blog and learn from the information given.

      Either way, this is a win win situation for you. The money spent on the book becomes insignificant when you start feeling better than you have in years.

        • Barbara in New Jersey

          Maggie,

          Jimmy’s book was released on August 27, 2013. It will be many, many
          months, perhaps years before it is available in paperback, if ever. Full list price is $19.95. If you wait for about 6 months you will be able to buy it used from Amazon at a discounted price. The longer you wait, the cheaper it becomes.

          Listen to the many podcasts for some of the information if the purchase price is not to your liking. Put you name on your local public library waiting list. Start checking your area local library used book sales for a copy.

          • Maggie

            Thanks for your response.

            When the shipping costs from Amazon are adding in the cost is quite high. An online store with free delivery has it for $25, which is a 25% increase. So again, costly. I don’t expect it to be in a local library any time soon as English books are limited (second language here).

            As for Kindle, I have a few books on my iPad (Kindle app) but I find reading on it too hard on my eyes, especially in the evenings. Also I would like a physical copy to keep.

            I’ll keep looking for the paperback option and hope that the publisher deems it worthy of such a release (we know it though ;) ).

    • Or you could try Amazon (used) or a used bookstore. I’ve done this many times! That’s how I got my WB book (Amazon)…found the cookbook new but % off which was worth it!! I was sick and tired of being sick and tired with my health and weight!

  6. Vicki Little

    Kind of off topic, but on Jimmy Moore’s blog, there is an advertisement for Pastabilities (noodles) by Quest. Just wondered what you all think and if anyone has tried them. Thanks.

    • > … Pastabilities (noodles) by Quest.

      We have not tried them, but only because the brands of konjac pasta we do use are about half the price. The Quest brand pastas don’t appear to have any compelling advantages over, say, the Miracle brand (unlike the Quest bars, which although not ideal low carb bars, have no real competition yet).

      Konjac, by the way, is pretty much zero everything. It’s not just net-zero carbs – it has negligible nutritional value of any kind. What it brings to the table is whatever you put on it, served as a pasta mimic.

      • La Frite

        @Boundless

        I will disagree here: you don’t feed yourself with the konjac root but your colon bacteria, and that’s as important as far as I know. The konjac root contains a fiber like component called glucomannan which feeds the good bacteria that produce short-chain-fatty acids (butyrate, acetate, etc) that gives energy to the colon cells and is in the long run preventing from say getting a colon cancer. Feed these bugs appropriately and you will have the best immune system. Konjac root noodles are just one way to do it. You can feed them resistant starch by .e.g mixing 2 Tbsp of hi-maize flour or unmodified raw potato starch flour or even plantain flour to some kefir / yogurt / fermented foods so the bacteria (probiotics) have a good chance to survive the ride down to your colon thanks to the RS (prebiotic).
        You can also eat a couple of green (or very green) bananas (very little sucrose, lots of RS but you gotta like them … not for everybody). The secret is to NOT cook the RS or it will be destroyed (above 150F). Cooked and cooled potatoes (say 30 days in the freezer) and eaten cold (no hot re-heating) can give you some as well.

        The bonus is that RS will also give control on your blood glycemia and provide a second meal effect (you can eat high glycemic stuff a few hours later after you ate RS, and your insulin spike will be much less and you will not experience any sugar crash – it’s really some kind of magic …). And your sleep will greatly improve.

        • Janknitz

          I buy Shirataki noodles at the grocery store that caters to Asians for about 1/3 of the price of Pastabilities, no shipping costs, and it’s exactly the same stuff. I really like being able to have noodles in chicken soup and in stir fries. I don’t like the texture of these noodles for pasta dishes (they stay kind of crunchy in a vegetable kind of way–imagine chewing a slice of cucumber or a bean sprout). When I want pasta sauce I prefer “Zucchini paparadelle” which is zucchini sliced on the thinnest setting of my mandolin.

          You have to know the trick of preparing the konjac noodles. They come out of the package with a very unpleasant fishy smell. They need to be rinsed several times in hot water until they stop smelling bad. I’ve heard a squirt of lemon can stop them from smelling, too, but never tried it. I like to stir them around in a dry frying pan (they won’t stick) after rinsing to dry up the excess water. You can soak them in broth or sauce for a little while so that they pick up that flavor when you are ready to serve them.

          Because of the insoluble fiber, they can be rough on the GI tract if you are not used to them. Don’t eat a big serving until you know how your gut will respond.

  7. Nina

    Get the podcast. No popups there.

    What a great interview. Thank you Jimmy and Dr Davis. It was clear for the non-specialist listener, but emphasised the complexity of the field. Diets don’t have the same effect on everybody. I enjoyed the genetic material and practical tips, including intermittent fasting.

    I hope Jimmy/Dr Davis give us some pointers on places to access relevant tests in the UK.

    Nina

  8. Glad SOMEONE is finally writing a book about this! Conventional wisdom on blood lipids has not served us well in the recent past. I think the whole world is on Lipitor or other statin drugs these days. Not neccessary for many of us. Diet and lifestyle are HUGE in altering these health parameters. Thanks!

    • > Glad SOMEONE is finally writing a book about this!

      Actually, several have been written. One I read lately was: The Great Cholesterol Myth: Why Lowering Your Cholesterol Won’t Prevent Heart Disease-and the Statin-Free Plan That Will, by Jonny Bowden with Dr. Stephen Sinatra. It has a Dr. Davis endorsement as I recall. When you pull it up on Amazon, there are several similar books available. People are figuring out that the consensus view of cholesterol is a catastrophe.

  9. jimmy

    Dr. Alejandro Junger in his book, ‘Clean Gut’, mentions that statin drugs work only because they reduce body wide or systemic inflammation. Not because they lower cholesterol. This probably contributes to the idea that cholesterol is bad for the arteries.

  10. Geoffrey

    I have been off wheat and sugar for about 9 months and would like to start supplementing my diet with fish oil. In what form do people recommend taking it and how much?

  11. Michelle

    I’d love to get rid of wheat in my diet but last time I quit carbs, I got vertigo as my adrenals had to work too hard. What else can I use instead of bread?

    • La Frite

      Potatoes and even buckwheat if you like pancakes. No need to go low carb if you don’t eat refined sugar and wheat. potatoes are your best bet. White rice is good after a good weight lifting workout (best meal after such is sushis :) ). You can of course eat fruits :)

      I know the recommendation on this site is to limit to quasi-ketogenic levels of carbs. But if you are not obese, cutting out wheat and refined seed / vegetable oils will lower your body inflammation by so much that carbs in the form of starchy veggies and fruits are just fine. Make sure you eat a bit of good fat as well (don’t overdo it if you eat healthy carbs at the same time).

  12. Denny Kroeze

    My first wife and I were married for over 35 years when she had her first heart attack. She died 6 months later of another. She had a cholesterol reading of 199. I looked deeper into the numbers and found that her triglyceride to HDL ratio was 5.5 to 1. After reading Jimmy Moore’s new book “Cholesterol Clarity” I found out why she died with those numbers. She was only 54 years old. Your book, “Wheat Belly” and Jimmy Moore’s book “Cholesterol Clarity” are so welcome in my home. Thank you, both of you.

  13. Unterderlaterne

    @ La Frite,
    ***Make sure you eat a bit of good fat as well (don’t overdo it if you eat healthy carbs at the same time***
    Could you explain a little more?

    • La Frite

      Hello Unterderlaterne,

      Yes I can explain to the best of my knowledge:

      Fat (the good kind: sat fat and mono unsat mostly) is good, is slowing down digestion and makes things taste way better. But if you eat an excess fat with an excess carb, you can be sure that most of the excess fat will go to fat store while your body is busy dealing with the blood glucose. if you have body fat to lose and that is your goal, that’s not so good, otherwise I hope you enjoyed the meal :)

      On the other hand, if you go zero carb, well, eating fat will be paramount to your health because you will use it as energy all the time. Make sure you also provide proteins because we do need some glucose (brain) and gluconeogenesis will take care of that. Whether it is a healthy metabolic state all the time and in the long run ? I don’t know, there is more to it than just the macro-nutrients of your diet.

      My conclusion: if you eat healthy carbs like potatoes or even rice (low toxin content, unlike wheat), you can add some fat for taste but don’t drown them with fat. You can make excellent oven-baked French fries (thus my alias name) by coating potato wedges with a thin layer of say slightly melted duck fat mixed with paprika powder, or garlic powder (whatever you like) and bake them at 200 C for ~ 30mn (at 15mn, toss them around). The result is really tasty. Eat some lean fish and veggies with the French fries, add a serving of fruit for dessert and voilà :)

      • > Fat (the good kind: sat fat and mono unsat mostly) is
        > good, is slowing down digestion …

        I know it is widely conjectured that eating fat with carbs “slows down” the carbs, but is it true? Are there any references to actual blood sugar results?

        > But if you eat an excess fat with an excess carb, you
        > can be sure that most of the excess fat will go to fat store …

        Excess carbs (more than you are burning) become fat stores all by themselves, and likely prevent healthy disposition of the food fat.

        > On the other hand, if you go zero carb, well, eating
        > fat will be paramount to your health because you
        > will use it as energy all the time.

        Well, WB isn’t 0 carb, it’s 50 carb. And it’s not 0 protein either (no hard limit specified). And as far as I can tell, getting almost all your energy from fat has way more benefits than hazards (it tends to reduce peak short-term athletic output, but that’s about it).

        > Make sure you also provide proteins because we do
        > need some glucose (brain) and gluconeogenesis will take care of that.

        We can metabolize glucose from carbs, protein and fat. Unless you’re a T1D producing near zero insulin, there will always be glucose around. And do we really need glucose? The brain can run fine on ketone bodies from fat, if your carbs are low enough to put you in ketosis.

        > Whether it is a healthy metabolic state all the time
        > and in the long run ?

        Yep. It’s not clear to me which side of 50 g/day is ideal, nor what level of protein intake is ideal. What we do know is that USDA “MyPlate” is way far from ideal.

        > My conclusion: if you eat healthy carbs like potatoes …

        I wouldn’t describe potato as healthy, except in small amounts.

        > … or even rice (low toxin content, unlike wheat),

        Dr. D. has described rice as the “most benign of the grains”, but it is also not an unlimited.

        As I study the merging New Diet, I see very little case for adding any carbs back in, except perhaps for some athletes, during an event.

        • La Frite

          50g net-carb / day ? I understand where this comes from.
          I like flexibility though so I am not applying a strict limit on a daily basis. I sort of subscribe to the idea of cycling macros now and then, just like humans have always done (higher carbs like fruits in summer to “fatten up” for the winter low-carb / ketosis). Animal protein and fat a few times / week, sometimes a vegetarian only week, etc. It makes you creative in the kitchen :)

          And sometimes, nothing at all for 24 hours …

      • Unterderlaterne

        @ La Frite , I appreciate the reply! I have decided not to eat potatoes, rice or beans Giving up potatoes was hard because I am German and had potatoes practically every day while I was growing up at home.
        For a special treat I allow myself a little bit of Quinoa. I have RA and have to keep inflammation down.
        I was aware of the content of your explanations because I read the Wheat Belly Book and lived my life accordingly. So I am so sorry you spent so much time explaining! Now it is perfectly clear what you meant . I feel rather embarrassed that I did not understand what you wrote. the first time. Thank you again! Barbara.

      • Unterderlaterne

        @ LaFrite,
        You do not want to eat lean fish, fatty fish such as Salmon and Herring is recommended! We need the healthy Omega! Barbara.

        • La Frite

          Hi Barbara, no problem :)

          I am French so I eat about everything eatable (except grains and toxic crap which pass for foods these days), I am an old-school kind of guy who likes older ways of eating (long meals, real ingredients, high quality foods – I am certainly not a fast-food / sandwich / quick fix person).

          I understand why many people are giving up on potatoes, rice and other carby foods. I think that if your metabolism is healthy (and a low carb – high fat diet of whole real foods can bring you there), you can experiment with these foods (which I personally consider valuable in the large spectrum of the cuisine art :)

          I do eat fatty fish (sardines, mackerel, halibut mostly) but I was referring to lean fish when you eat it with potatoes (a high carb meal preferably on the low fat end). I do have high fat meals but I tend to make them moderate / low carb. I do this because in nature, you don’t find much raw foods that are both high carb and high fat at the same time. So I keep this rough principle for my meals.

  14. Hi, I couldnt find a contact email or form.

    As “The Wheat Belly” has just been released in Brazil (aprox. 190 million people), I would like to invite Dr. Davis to participate in an online inverview for one episode of our videocast/podcast.

    I’m the founder of http://www.EmagrecerDeVez.com which is the biggest weightloss/nutrition blog in Brazil, with near 200.000 visitors/month, over 100.000 fans on facebook and almost 100.000 email subscribers.

    Other doctors as Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt (from Sweden) and Dr. Jose Souto (Brazil) were already part of our podcasts/videocasts and it was great!

    Could you please contact me back? I think it would be a great thing for the brazilian people and, of course, for the release of the book! I read the book myself and agree with everything said in there. People need this knowledge!

    Thanks a lot,
    Rodrigo

  15. Ed

    Dr. Davis,
    Apologies for posting this question here, but, I just had my CT scan completed and my Agatston score is 1153.82. (LAD = 456.31) I’m coming up on my annual physical and as my MD doesn’t include a stress test as part of the physical, decided to go ahead and get this done on my own.
    The tech said he could not comment on the results but recommended I see their cardiologist (who I understand is a huge advocate of statins) or my family physician to determine the recommended medications.
    While surfing the ‘net, came across Track Your Plaque and this website and wanted to ask if you do phone consults, etc.?
    Thanks -

  16. Loved the interview! I hope you can expand on your discussion of how certain genotypes do well with fasting. Especially since I am beginning to think I fall into that category… despite being non-athletic and bad in math, I am quite geeky. Perhaps because I’m a woman?

    I find when I eat a meal full of protein and fat, to full satiety; I can be good for 24 hours. I never suspected my gluten free/ low carb journey would lead to this. Yet, it seems to be quite healthy in theory.

  17. mark

    As a person with increased cholesterol I would advise against the usage of statins. Statins are known to produce many side effects. Statins will significantly deprive your organism of Q10, which is needed for production of energy in body cells. Using statins may cause muscle weakening and muscle pain and fatigue. Impairment of muscle is a frequent side effect of using statin drugs. Statins have also been linked to risk of nerve damage in the hands and feet, dizziness, derpession, decreased mental abilities, weakened immune system, etc. Aslo there is a possible link to increased risk of Lou Gehrig disease because of taking statins. If possible, a natural way to lower cholesterol is always the best choice. For example, you can eat food that lowers cholesterol naturally and you can do sports. Here’s a list of cholesterol lowering foods: http://healthiack.com/health/is-cholesterol-a-good-thing-or-a-bad-thing#foods-for-lowering-cholesterol
    Never take statins, if not in mortal danger and if there is no other way. Hope this helps.
    Regards, Mark